Kansas Crimson

No doubt, a coincidence:

Geezer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:28 pm https://www-1.thenewstribune.com/news/b ... 51978.html#

Jesus fucking Christ. We can't even imagine what we'd learn if the Trump Administration, enabled by the Attorney General and republicans, had to comply with requests for documents and witnesses.

smfh

In a back corner of the swank H Bar in Houston, near a huge photo of Brigitte Bardot with a dangling cigarette and a deck of cards, two Russian-speaking men offered a Ukrainian gas executive what seemed like an outrageous business proposal.

Andrew Favorov, the No. 2 at Ukraine’s state-run gas company Naftogaz, says he sat on a red leather bench seat and listened wide-eyed as the men boasted of their connections to President Donald Trump and proposed a deal to sell large quantities of liquefied natural gas from Texas to Ukraine.

But first, Favorov says, they told him they would have to remove two obstacles: Favorov’s boss and the U.S. ambassador in Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital.

Favorov says he hardly took the proposal at the early March meeting seriously. The men, who sported open shirts showing off thick gold chains at a conference where most wore business attire, had zero experience in the gas business. And it wasn’t plausible to Favorov that they would be able to oust his boss, never mind remove a U.S. ambassador.

What he didn’t know as he sipped whiskey that evening was that high-ranking officials in the Ukrainian government were already taking steps to topple his boss, Naftogaz CEO Andriy Kobolyev. And two months later, Trump recalled U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, a career diplomat with a reputation as an anti-corruption crusader.

...His tale, corroborated by interviews with other key witnesses, reveals that the pair continued to pursue a deal for months. The campaign culminated in May, at a meeting at the Trump International Hotel in Washington that included a lobbyist with deep ties to U.S. Energy Secretary Rick Perry and a Republican fundraiser from Texas close to Donald Trump Jr. Three people with direct knowledge of that meeting described it to the AP on condition of anonymity because some of the players are under federal investigation.

The maneuvering over Naftogaz came at the same time that Giuliani, with the help of Parnas and Fruman, were trying to get Yovanovitch out of the way and persuade Ukraine’s leaders to announce an investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter’s work with Burisma, a rival Ukrainian gas company.

[...]

Heaven forbid we get any of these goons* to testify, or further investigate in any way.

because tribalism








*for real, maybe they can wear their open shirts and gold chains to the trial too!

If only the opposition party controlled some institution -- some body, some house -- where it could conduct interviews with these people.

Damn that house telling everyone to ignore that house’s subpoenas!

Good point. Fancy Nancy doesn't have anywhere near the pull as Cocaine Mitch.

And, rumors that democratic delegates to the national convention will draft Pelosi as a compromise candidate to unify the party and run for president, are greatly exaggerated.

Love it.

Feral wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:55 pm And, rumors that democratic delegates to the national convention will draft Pelosi as a compromise candidate to unify the party and run for president, are greatly exaggerated.

They could do worse.

And almost certainly will.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:40 am

Feral wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:55 pm And, rumors that democratic delegates to the national convention will draft Pelosi as a compromise candidate to unify the party and run for president, are greatly exaggerated.

They could do worse...

Something republicans can't say.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:40 am

Feral wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:55 pm And, rumors that democratic delegates to the national convention will draft Pelosi as a compromise candidate to unify the party and run for president, are greatly exaggerated.

They could do worse.

And almost certainly will.

Bernie Magic Money and The Waitress are a great pairing. She makes him look reasonable and moderate and he pretends like anyone over 25 with a brain can stand to listen to her.

Feral wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:33 am

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:40 am

Feral wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:55 pm And, rumors that democratic delegates to the national convention will draft Pelosi as a compromise candidate to unify the party and run for president, are greatly exaggerated.

They could do worse...

Something republicans can't say.

Patience glassplopper.

Heaven forbid either party advance a candidate under the age of 70.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:02 am Heaven forbid either party advance a candidate under the age of 70.

I knew we’d agree on something eventually.

Gosh, no wonder Trump doesn't want them to testify:

Ol’ Crazy Nancy’s decision to not submit the articles may prove to be a clever move.

At the very least, Trump has been impeached. Even if that’s just symbolic, and more of a statement than would be achieved with a hurried partisan acquittal.

If they get the senate to agree to witnesses, maybe it’s worth submitting.

If they gotta just wait it out and let the news keep dropping - shady Ukraine businessmen, financial records, foot in mouth moments - maybe some bombshell drops so hard that even the senate is like yeah we need to hear from some folks, and the articles can be advanced then.

Orrrr maybe it rallies Trump’s base so much so that he gets re-elected with even less Russian interference than last time.

Feral wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:46 pm Gosh, no wonder Trump doesn't want them to testify:

This is at least the second major revelation that's come since Trump was impeached, and I can't imagine anyone sane would suggest we've seen all there is to see.

Unless something changes dramatically and Trump is actually removed (or forced to resign), the Democrats will have to figure how to handle additional revelations post-non-removal. I would think the right course of action would be to use these subsequent revelations to put heat on vulnerable GOP senators (as opposed to re-litigating impeachment on worse iterations of the same facts).

"Revelation X simply underscores what we already knew: Trump is guilty as sin. However, it makes clear that Vulnerable Senator Y is and has always been complicit in the coverup."

Democrats have to start thinking ahead, and swinging control of the Senate would seem to be the best firewall protecting the country from a second Trump term, whether legitimately won, or otherwise.

As some smart guy on here said, there's no impeachment until the articles cross the hall to the Senate.

So, recall the vote and re-open the hearings, get court ordered subpoenas, and take testimony, just like the Trumplicans demand. As I've said before, Federal Judges like expedited briefing on important issues. We are dealing with east coast law firms that run their offices 24/7. Videotape the depositions. It can be done. Call the Majority Leader's bluff. If he thinks everything has been sloppy, clean it up. Give the Majority Leader what he wants, a full record.

In the legal context, judges can hold judgments for 30 days and alter or amend them on their own motion. I'm sure the Speaker can do the same thing since, you know, it is only political.

Leawood wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:08 am As some smart guy on here said, there's no impeachment until the articles cross the hall to the Senate.

So, recall the vote and re-open the hearings, get court ordered subpoenas, and take testimony, just like the Trumplicans demand. As I've said before, Federal Judges like expedited briefing on important issues. We are dealing with east coast law firms that run their offices 24/7. Videotape the depositions. It can be done. Call the Majority Leader's bluff. If he thinks everything has been sloppy, clean it up. Give the Majority Leader what he wants, a full record.

In the legal context, judges can hold judgments for 30 days and alter or amend them on their own motion. I'm sure the Speaker can do the same thing since, you know, it is only political.

Maybe - and this would be a logical path. There's no doubt that Pelosi's move to withhold the articles has revealed the genius in not making a move until absolutely necessary.

That said, clearly there is significant pressure swelling within the right. It might just be that letting this continue to build (without making any dramatic moves, like recall) causes the right to fracture within itself.