Kansas Crimson

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:03 am As I said, probably 20 or so pages ago. There's one aggressor here and one on the defense. We're supporting the right guys. Simple as that.

Agreed.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:51 am you're cool, 99. Thanks for the humility either way.

Trad, you're prob my best friend I've never actually. met in real life. That feels funny to say lol.

When you make comments like I'm "better/smarter than this," then go silent when asked to clarify, and also don't bother to address any of my other questions (which I think are all valid questions and concerns), yea, it's disappointing.

I don't think there's necessarily right or wrong answers, at least for the sake of dialogue. free to reply. Or not. Either way, I just wanna get along.

back atcha, bud

my statement was geared towards your apparent inability to separate what is happening right now, on the ground in Eukraine from your philosophical views about globalism/imperialism

early on i made the analogy of talking about gun control while there was a shooter actively mowing down school children. i still think that analogy is apt

we can disagree, but i’m not ok with the US standing idly by while russia flexes it’s muscles and goes down the archaic conqueror’s road…regardless of any whataboutism meddling that the US has done in the past

you should know me well enough by now to know that i’m often one of the first people to call out our country’s history of immoral and atrocious behavior, both domestically and abroad

we can agree to disagree, but i absolutely think there is a right answer here (and a wrong one) - 99 and twocoach hit the nail on the head

as i’ve said before, turning this into a discussion about all of the US’ shortcomings is EXACTLY the tactic used by putin (and trump, if we’re being honest)

it only serves to justify their actions, even when you continuously (and sarcastically) shout that putin is bad and insist that you aren’t justifying russia’s actions

ugh.


ugh ugh ugh.





UGH.





why you gotta add that sarcastically part?

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:47 am

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:03 am As I said, probably 20 or so pages ago. There's one aggressor here and one on the defense. We're supporting the right guys. Simple as that.

Agreed.

Sure, but “right guys” is not the same as “good guys”

what I still am not sure anyone has really answered is, beyond the semantics of "good guys" or "right guys," what was our end game of years of indiscriminately flooding weapons into a historically unstable country ever supposed to be, anyway?

Once again, let me condemn Putin and the Russian aggression. Sincerely!

Can we all agree we don't want Russian aggression?

Then why'd we so brazenly provoke Russian aggression anyway?

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:45 am
If the people of Texas or in a few counties in Texas want to secede from the United States, do you think the United States should just have no say in that? No, obviously not.

Yes they should have some sort of "say" in their overall status but no, they shouldn't just get to choose what country they want their region to be a part of, especially when the people running the vote are fully intent on a sham vote that will not be trustworthy whatsoever. It has nothing to do with what the US wants and everything to do with what the current government of that region wants. You cannot just let the dummies walking the earth randomly decide things of such massive consequence or their would be constant turmoil.

how well do you understand the whole Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics or whatever?

Does Ukraine want them to be part of Ukraine?

Does Russia want them to be part of Russia?

What does the current government of that region want?

Do the people of these regions support that current government?

Do the people of these regions want to be part of Ukraine, or part of Russia, or just do their own thing?

who are these "dummies walking the earth" you speak of? Is that a comment on the governments, or the peoples?

And, I agree, I don't know how Russia expects anyone to take their vote seriously. Seriously! I'm not being sarcastic btw.

and for the Texas analogy to work, you may have to add something about how Texas already thinks they've seceded, already doesn't wanna answer to their previous governing authority, and the governing authority in DC who thinks they're still in charge of Texas has responded by giving weapons (that were furnished by some other superpower country on the other side of the world) to a bunch of quasi-official Proud Boy types who like to play GI Joe against the Texans.

Perhaps.

I'm not quite sure of the exact details of these two self-purported independent republics or how they came to be, which is why I asked.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 022-09-19/

Meanwhile, many Russians are fleeing the country after their largest conscription efforts since WWII.

good!

also, twocoach, it's a bummer that you and so many other posters here continue to ignore the questions I've asked.

it almost makes you wonder who the "willfully blind" ones are and have been in this thread all along, but I don't want to antagonize.

regarding the Russian conscription, this shit is terrifying.



and yet, despite the threat of arrest and compulsory draft, there are still Russian people out protesting in the streets by the thousands.



would you guys allow me to condemn Putin and the Russian government's aggression, while expressing admiration for and solidarity with the Russian people brave enough to protest?

if I could be cautiously optimistic, if there's really this many Russian people upset about the war, or at least about the call to serve, then maybe it means they're that much closer to removing Putin from power? Hopefully. Sincerely!

I wish there was some critical mass of anti-war sentiments in Merica too.

just saw a report from an anonymous russian intelligence FSB officer claiming that putin has progressive cancer and is on the verge of loosing his eyesight

1917

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:56 am just saw a report from an anonymous russian intelligence FSB officer claiming that putin has progressive cancer and is on the verge of loosing his eyesight

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-puti ... ys-1710357

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:04 am and for the Texas analogy to work, you may have to add something about how Texas already thinks they've seceded, already doesn't wanna answer to their previous governing authority, and the governing authority in DC who thinks they're still in charge of Texas has responded by giving weapons (that were furnished by some other superpower country on the other side of the world) to a bunch of quasi-official Proud Boy types who like to play GI Joe against the Texans.

Perhaps.

I'm not quite sure of the exact details of these two self-purported independent republics or how they came to be, which is why I asked.

Under the Soviet era each region was known as a Soviet Socialist Republic; USSR was thus Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (note plural - I was ruled incorrect when I used the singular in a school quiz competition). Anyway while there were 15 SSR individual regions also regarded themselves as “autonomous republics” or ASSR. These evolved into issues such as Chechnya in recent years. While Russia fought the independence of Chechnya and Nagarno Kharabakh they are embracing the claims of fringe elements in Crimea, Donetsk etc.

Disclaimer: above is based on my understanding of my reading and conversations with coworkers whose origin is Ukrainian and other former Soviet republics.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:47 am Then why'd we so brazenly provoke Russian aggression anyway?

I will likely regret asking, but tell me exactly what the US did to "so brazenly provoke" Russian aggression?

japhy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:45 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:47 am Then why'd we so brazenly provoke Russian aggression anyway?

I will likely regret asking, but tell me exactly what the US did to "so brazenly provoke" Russian aggression?

this is a good and valid question, Japhy, so I hope you don't regret asking.

If I may begin a reply with a question of my own - could I ask if you are either aware of, or maybe just indifferent to, the fact the US has been weaponizing Ukraine for years already?

and if you were aware of that, then how do you frame that as some kinda diplomacy or otherwise good faith foreign policy? Or as something about which the region affected should have to just put up with it? As something that shouldn't wouldn't couldn't possibly be met with negative consequences? Or as anything BUT something meant to escalate and, yes, perhaps even brazenly provoke?

Asking again:

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:47 am what was our end game of years of indiscriminately flooding weapons into a historically unstable country ever supposed to be, anyway?

...and not just historically unstable, but also historically prone to conflict with their oft-adversarial neighbors to the east, who also happen to be perhaps our biggest imperial adversaries to boot.

now that I'm asking again and wondering...if someone wanted to posit that the end game really was never ever anything at all more than just another payday for the MIC, nothing but, with absolutely no regard for potential consequences or no vision or no future plan further than that...I could prob agree.

how many countries does the US sell “arms” to?

how many, and which countries, has the US supplied more arms to than Ukraine?

i tried to have this discussion in a separate thread, but you didn’t want to talk about the saudis or any of the 101 other countries that the US sells to…including other neighbors of russia

Of the 25 countries buying the most weapons from the US, 10 are either NATO member nations or part of other alliances formed with the US since the Cold War

i mean, we sell to taiwan lol

i don’t like any of it, but you continue to miss the forest for the trees

We’re number 1!

Qusdahl memes accuse the US federal gummint of being little more than an arms broker at this point. If only they’d do things like fix the water crisis in Jackson as quickly as they strike up weapons deals.

How is that missing the forest for the trees tho? Cuz I’m not a fan of those arms sales either.

Besides, what’s the sitch like in each of those other countries buying our arms?

Did we already know those other places too are some kinda humanitarian crisis shitshow, with certain radical extremist types so radical and extreme even our own federal lawmakers have previously expressed concern about arming them, and with imperial adversaries right next door getting increasingly pissed about it, like we did with Ukraine?

Please realize this isn't Russian propaganda, either! These are all issues that arose prior to the current Russian invasion of Ukraine, raised by our own gummint, reported by our own western media, and posted in this very thread!

The US Government will never stop selling arms to other countries. Way to profitable. And, honestly, if you can remove the emotions from it, they shouldn’t stop selling arms.