Q gone...

[Deleted User 75]

College students aren't children.

Part of the solution is treating them like autonomous adults instead of a money making tool for opportunistic loooser leaches who are there under the guise of being advisors there to "protect" these "children".

Those advisors seem to protect them AND care about their wants/needs a HELL of a lot MORE than the NCAA.

[pdub]

It’s amazing how much some of you devalue education.
Like college, and the courses and environment it provides, is worthless.

[Geezer]

Selection Scale 120% 80%
No. 1 $6,746,400 $8,095,680 $5,397,120
No. 2 $6,036,200 $7,243,440 $4,828,960
No. 3 $5,420,500 $6,504,600 $4,336,400
No. 4 $4,887,200 $5,864,640 $3,909,760
No. 5 $4,425,600 $5,310,720 $3,540,480

[Shirley]

It’s amazing how much some of you devalue education.
Like college, and the courses and environment it provides, is worthless.

Just because you got laid regularly doesn't mean any of these guys ever did.

[Deleted User 141]

As specific to why Grimes doesn't want to be here: I agree. He didn't buy into what Bill was selling.

But, you made a general statement about not wanting players to be here for a year. About preferring guys that stay longer.

And there is an obvious way to make it so that the kids who really want to be here have less of a reason to leave early.

There is your solution/wants.
There is my solution/wants.
And round and round we go.

Yeah, but yours remind me of a "Which GoT Character are you" quiz on Buzzfeed.

if measured in mental terms, would he be Tyrion in your estimation?

[Deleted User 104]

It’s amazing how much some of you devalue education.
Like college, and the courses and environment it provides, is worthless.

Well yes and no. My education was essential for everything I do in my career. But I didn't major in German polka history.

[PhDhawk]

College students aren't children.

Part of the solution is treating them like autonomous adults instead of a money making tool for opportunistic loooser leaches who are there under the guise of being advisors there to "protect" these "children".

Those advisors seem to protect them AND care about their wants/needs a HELL of a lot MORE than the NCAA.

I think the ncaa sucks too, but it's a regulatory organization. These "teams if advisors" have the sole purpose of benefitting that specific student athlete, and so often they don't.

[PhDhawk]

Selection Scale 120% 80%
No. 1 $6,746,400 $8,095,680 $5,397,120
No. 2 $6,036,200 $7,243,440 $4,828,960
No. 3 $5,420,500 $6,504,600 $4,336,400
No. 4 $4,887,200 $5,864,640 $3,909,760
No. 5 $4,425,600 $5,310,720 $3,540,480

$35,000

[Deleted User 75]

College students aren't children.

Part of the solution is treating them like autonomous adults instead of a money making tool for opportunistic loooser leaches who are there under the guise of being advisors there to "protect" these "children".

Those advisors seem to protect them AND care about their wants/needs a HELL of a lot MORE than the NCAA.

I think the ncaa sucks too, but it's a regulatory organization. These "teams if advisors" have the sole purpose of benefitting that specific student athlete, and so often they don't.

I'm sure there are instances where kids get bad advice...but this kid seems to genuinely want to go pro. There's nothing wrong with that.

At a certain point it's on the player to develop. It's not like staying at Kansas makes it 100% sure that he has NBA success...and it's not like leaving makes it 100% sure that he fails in the NBA (even if he spends a few years in the G League or overseas. If you're good enough to make it and have the work ethic to develop then it'll work out regardless of his decision.

I think some college fans over value or over estimate how much a player develops in a single season. They have limited time with coaches. They have class. Etc.....and there is injury risk.

As a pro he can get paid, and have unlimited time to develop his game.

The fact is, regardless of how long a player stays in school, most players don't make it in the NBA. He's ready to start his process of making it. Personally, I don't think another year at KU would do much to help or hurt his chances of long term NBA success. It might help his chances of being drafted higher, but that's far from a guarantee. It could also hurt his chances of being drafted at all.

I have no problem with any player who decides it is time to get paid and start the uphill climb to the NBA.

Not to mention he has seen first hand what is going on with SDS. He's 1 news story away from being in the same boat....because if we are paying for SDS then we damn sure are paying for guys like Quentin Grimes.

[jfish26]

The point, and why this keeps coming up, is that this is the issue that hangs over all of college basketball. The stubborn refusal to get the players more value than they're getting is what causes both (a) weird shit to happen to and around children, (b) really great basketball players to choose not to play basketball in college.

As KU fan, (b) bothers me because, you know, I like when great basketball players choose to play basketball in college (and, particularly, at KU and at schools KU plays against).

As a person, (a) bothers me (as it should you).

You haven't solved anything. No matter how much money your alleged solution creates for the college player, it will never realistically be a large enough number to prevent either (a) or (b).

Because (a) the more money that is involved in anything really, the weirder shit that tends to happen around it. And (b) because the great basketball players will always be able to make more money in the NBA than in college.

It doesn’t make sense to say that nothing would change. Letting the shoe companies pay players directly would absolutely cut out weirdos in the middle. And letting kids get money while in school would absolutely keep some kids in school longer.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Here's the thing, though, jfish: if you can't completely eradicate world hunger, why would we allow people to give a needy person food?

[pdub]

If we want to go and stretch things ( world hunger ):
Why can't colleges pay players directly? They should be able to sign them to yearly contracts - highest bidder gets the players. And the colleges can sign more contracts for heavier endorsements so we can stamp logos all over the court and uniforms. Why should they even bother going to class? They shouldn't have to. What's the point of class/school? If they don't need to go to class, then why do they only get to play four years? We should be able to sign Andrew Wiggins for 8 years to play at KU. Imagine our roster! TNT Thursday nights AT&T Jayhawks vs the FedEx Wildcats. Joel v KAT. Awesome!
Also AFH is kinda old - we should just put a new arena near Leawood. And the Jayhawks is kind of an offensive name. Let's call em the Phogushers.

[pdub]

Why can't colleges pay players directly? They should be able to sign them to yearly contracts - highest bidder gets the players.

It already happens like this.

Just getting ahead of the normal 'gotchya' around here.

[PhDhawk]

Those advisors seem to protect them AND care about their wants/needs a HELL of a lot MORE than the NCAA.

I think the ncaa sucks too, but it's a regulatory organization. These "teams if advisors" have the sole purpose of benefitting that specific student athlete, and so often they don't.

I'm sure there are instances where kids get bad advice...but this kid seems to genuinely want to go pro. There's nothing wrong with that.

At a certain point it's on the player to develop. It's not like staying at Kansas makes it 100% sure that he has NBA success...and it's not like leaving makes it 100% sure that he fails in the NBA (even if he spends a few years in the G League or overseas. If you're good enough to make it and have the work ethic to develop then it'll work out regardless of his decision.

I think some college fans over value or over estimate how much a player develops in a single season. They have limited time with coaches. They have class. Etc.....and there is injury risk.

As a pro he can get paid, and have unlimited time to develop his game.

The fact is, regardless of how long a player stays in school, most players don't make it in the NBA. He's ready to start his process of making it. Personally, I don't think another year at KU would do much to help or hurt his chances of long term NBA success. It might help his chances of being drafted higher, but that's far from a guarantee. It could also hurt his chances of being drafted at all.

I have no problem with any player who decides it is time to get paid and start the uphill climb to the NBA.

Not to mention he has seen first hand what is going on with SDS. He's 1 news story away from being in the same boat....because if we are paying for SDS then we damn sure are paying for guys like Quentin Grimes.

It's not about player development, or at least not on its own, for me. It's more about starting that clock. If you're further along in your development, more mature, etc. when you start playing professionally then you have a better opportunity of sticking before you get shown the door. You only have so long and only so many chances. There are obviously counters to this argument, such as age, or the stigma of being a multi-year player, but Grimes is still 18.

As you said he may or may not be good enough to make it and he can make his own decision. But based on how he played, it seems really likely that he's not good enough to make it. I mean, I want people to succeed and get paid, but Grimes hasn't done anything to really deserve it. I always like to think of professional basketball as a meritocracy, the best players make it to the highest levels and get the biggest contracts. But Grimes hasn't done anything post-HS to justify getting a professional contract. So I think you have to factor that into why people are posting the things they're posting.

[twocoach]

The point, and why this keeps coming up, is that this is the issue that hangs over all of college basketball. The stubborn refusal to get the players more value than they're getting is what causes both (a) weird shit to happen to and around children, (b) really great basketball players to choose not to play basketball in college.

As KU fan, (b) bothers me because, you know, I like when great basketball players choose to play basketball in college (and, particularly, at KU and at schools KU plays against).

As a person, (a) bothers me (as it should you).

You haven't solved anything. No matter how much money your alleged solution creates for the college player, it will never realistically be a large enough number to prevent either (a) or (b).

Because (a) the more money that is involved in anything really, the weirder shit that tends to happen around it. And (b) because the great basketball players will always be able to make more money in the NBA than in college.

It doesn’t make sense to say that nothing would change. Letting the shoe companies pay players directly would absolutely cut out weirdos in the middle. And letting kids get money while in school would absolutely keep some kids in school longer.

You can keep saying it, it doesn't just make it true. There will always be weirdos trying to get their hooks into these kids because they want to get "in" on their potential future earnings.

And you referenced keeping GREAT basketball players in school longer, which it will not. Maybe it keeps a few of the mid tier players from feeling they have to jump early to keep their hands on any paltry amount of cash they can get. But those aren't "great" college players.

Nike signing Zion to a $2 million a year contract isnt going to keep him in college when he can go to the NBA and get millions more on top of that multimillion dollar shoe contract.

[ousdahl]

Why can't colleges pay players directly? They should be able to sign them to yearly contracts - highest bidder gets the players.

It already happens like this.

Just getting ahead of the normal 'gotchya' around here.

damn bro well now you're just arguing with yourself in the same post.

[ousdahl]

You haven't solved anything. No matter how much money your alleged solution creates for the college player, it will never realistically be a large enough number to prevent either (a) or (b).

Because (a) the more money that is involved in anything really, the weirder shit that tends to happen around it. And (b) because the great basketball players will always be able to make more money in the NBA than in college.

It doesn’t make sense to say that nothing would change. Letting the shoe companies pay players directly would absolutely cut out weirdos in the middle. And letting kids get money while in school would absolutely keep some kids in school longer.

You can keep saying it, it doesn't just make it true. There will always be weirdos trying to get their hooks into these kids because they want to get "in" on their potential future earnings.

And you referenced keeping GREAT basketball players in school longer, which it will not. Maybe it keeps a few of the mid tier players from feeling they have to jump early to keep their hands on any paltry amount of cash they can get. But those aren't "great" college players.

Nike signing Zion to a $2 million a year contract isnt going to keep him in college when he can go to the NBA and get millions more on top of that multimillion dollar shoe contract.

sure there will always be weirdos, but what kind of market will the weirdos have to operate within if their marketing pitch is "lemme slip you a brown bag under the table with a few grand cash," when the talent could otherwise ink an honest-to-goodness business contract that's not gonna get them in hot water with the FBI?

[jfish26]

Right. No one is saying that there's any solution that makes all bad behavior cease to exist forever. But there are certainly ways to disincentivize it, which will of course reduce it.

[twocoach]

I think NBA teams are going to be more willing to give a guy a chance, a call-up and a shot if he has something he can do and do at close to an NBA level. Every time Graham goes down to the G League to get some reps, he murders that level of competition. In his time in the NBA, he has the best A/TO ratio of a rookie in the last 20 whatever years.

Grimes is going to be down at that level trying to learn how to shoot, drive and defend and he's going to be doing that against mediocre rosters full of guys trying to get their own game noticed. If he doesn't develop quick, NBA teams will skip over him to the next wave of guys.

[pdub]

I think I deserved at least an 8.