Kansas Crimson

I don't follow those guys on twitter nor did I read really any of their articles before yesterday.

I did think Lawhorn's article was useful as well in this.

Granted I'm not a legal person like you or Fish, but it seems like the general consensus from national to local level is that this is not good for Kansas and it won't be good.

I'd love to be shown otherwise.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:32 am Was Preston really worth $90 grand?

Rather, if Preston was worth $90 grand as only a top 25 recruit and g-league player, then how much are the once-in-a-generation guys really getting?!

Like with their apparel contracts with colleges, Adidas has to overpay to beat Nike.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:35 am I don't follow those guys on twitter nor did I read really any of their articles before yesterday.

I did think Lawhorn's article was useful as well in this.

Granted I'm not a legal person like you or Fish, but it seems like the general consensus from national to local level is that this is not good for Kansas and it won't be good.

I'd love to be shown otherwise.

The only certainty is that this will drag out for a long time. The murkier the legal situation gets, I don't see how potential sanctions can do anything but become less severe.

I thought the same thing about the DeSousa case and then the ncaa banned him for 2 seasons.

We are about to be the example, folks.

apples and oranges.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:35 am I don't follow those guys on twitter nor did I read really any of their articles before yesterday.

I did think Lawhorn's article was useful as well in this.

Granted I'm not a legal person like you or Fish, but it seems like the general consensus from national to local level is that this is not good for Kansas and it won't be good.

I'd love to be shown otherwise.

Listen to the 810 podcast with Mike Decourcy from Sporting News. Gives the same claims we have all mentioned in this thread. He believes that the NCAA is reaching on its NOA.
All of us believe it won't be good for Kansas. Not currently or in the future. I don't expect KU will get a top 10 kid until this is resolved. Self is going to have to squeeze every bit of juice out of every player he has because this program could be headed for some really lean years.
My guess is they come for the '18 banner (which the NCAA has a ongoing case in the courts from several L'ville players who were not involved in the dorm parties) Self is served with a suspension, probation and a one year post season ban.

"I don't expect KU will get a top 10 kid until this is resolved."

Good with me.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:10 am "I don't expect KU will get a top 10 kid until this is resolved."

Good with me.

Agreed. But I think it will move our recruit ceiling WAY down below #10. If we miss on Bryce Thompson, I wouldn't be surprised if KU failed to land a Top 40-50 player in the Class of '20.

I hope this leads to the dealth of the NCAA. If they were smart the NCAA comes with a harsh NOA, let's Kansas respond, then accepts a slap on the wrist punishment (loss of one scholarship from this year -McBride's, a couple games ban for Townsend) NCAA claims victory and walks away.

Lonestarjayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:23 am I hope this leads to the dealth of the NCAA. If they were smart the NCAA comes with a harsh NOA, let's Kansas respond, then accepts a slap on the wrist punishment (loss of one scholarship from this year -McBride's, a couple games ban for Townsend) NCAA claims victory and walks away.

There are too many Little Fish schools that need the ncaa to keep their seat at the table.

And we all know the ncaa isnt smart. Hoping for them to widen up is futile. If they give Kansas a slap on the wrist then they look even more weak and worthless.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... XrfJ-NRjBY

Another article that doesn't exactly paint a rosy picture for KU / HCBS. The perspective is interesting, but not optimistic nonetheless.

"Even if the FBI fell short of completely exposing college basketball for the cesspool that it is, the NCAA couldn’t take a pass on this. The NCAA had to hit a big name and hit them hard, and now it has its chance....

It’s easy enough to look at these slimy college basketball coaches, the greedy shoe companies and the hypocritical NCAA and wish for a plague on all their houses. But someone has to be made an example of to keep the amateurism con going. It appears that burden is going to fall directly on Self’s neck."

I don’t see any evidence. In fact, Kansas can bring witnesses on how these things are handled at every top tier school and be shown to be in compliance in what has been ALLOWED to be a gray area. The deprivation of students in certain sports to own their image and earn compensation for things not directly related to competition is another aspect of this worth bringing up. In sum, I see the unequal levying of sanctions to undermine the NCAA’s charter. Scorched earth

I have said it before and I will say it again, KU and Self have a history with NCAA violations.
A long history. Fair or not, I think that plays a role in what is going on today.
The shit under Self started in 2003/2004. It is still going strong in 2019.
Sure, I agree, fuck the NCAA - but why are KU fans too loyal to say fuck you to Bill Self too?

Gutter, you forgot to cite 1957.


Also, the big loss of scholarship under Bill was from Roy.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:08 pm Gutter, you forgot to cite 1957.


Also, the big loss of scholarship under Bill was from Roy.

He also forgot 1988, which, IIRC, he's said he was personally tits deep in?

Back in the 80s, gutter and Danny Manning and Ron Kellog were besties and lived in the same dorm and got some great chickn' together.

Paul1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:06 pm I have said it before and I will say it again, KU and Self have a history with NCAA violations.
A long history. Fair or not, I think that plays a role in what is going on today.
The shit under Self started in 2003/2004. It is still going strong in 2019.
Sure, I agree, fuck the NCAA - but why are KU fans too loyal to say fuck you to Bill Self too?

Fair question...yes and no. While we all agree the NCAA model is broken and has been broken for a long time Self has taken chances on guys...Selby, Josh Jackson, Cliff Alexander, Diallo, SdS, and Billy Preston who came with, how should I say this not so stellar reputations. Self and Company lived on a razor's edge and flourished. Now I'm sure Self and Co. will say the lines are so grey with certain rules and restrictions that it is hard to distinguish what is right and what is wrong but eventually you play with enough fire you are going to get burned.
At the end of the day if you are willing to do the crime you better be willing to do the time.

CnB, DC, pdub -
Gutter didn't cite anything specific. Gutter stated the shit under Self began in 03/04. It did.
It's continued throughout Self's tenure. People want to deny/ignore it, so be it. Feel free to kill the messenger and not the guy/s who wrote the message. I'm used to it.
Gutter was not "tits deep in" - in 1988. Gutter was somewhat "in" 84, 85, 86. Personally involved in violations.
Gutter was not besties with Danny Manning and Ron Kellogg (two g) nor did he live in the same dorm. He did get some great chickn' with them.

Now that we have clarified all that, can we get back to the fact that Bill Self is a fucking scum bag in the eyes of many on here - if he's at any other program other than KU?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the 03/04 stuff you cite was from the Roy era when Lew Perkins aired the dirt, no?

CNB -
Once again, I didn't "cite" anything specific. I assume you are referring to the DJax fiasco? Yes? No?
Either way, fine. We won't say anything DJax related happened under Self - although I do feel it's debatable. That's ok, we can go ahead and blame it on the Roy era.
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Bill hiring K.T..
Who you know, had a stellar history in terms of his relationship/s with the NCAA. That's sarcasm for those who are unaware of his past history.
I'm thinking about things such as how all of a sudden Julian Wright decided he wanted to come to KU. How it's interesting that C.J. Giles and Rod Stewart decided to follow an ASSISTANT coach to KU. Stuff like that.
I know, it was all kosher - in the eyes of the deniers. Sorry kids, I'm not buying it.
Don't get me wrong, I fully realize Larry Brown and Roy Williams weren't exactly choir boys either.
I'll admit I am a pussy because I allow this shit to bother me. The "shit" is that these men are hired to represent the University of Kansas and they get paid a shit load of money to do it - and they have given our program a black eye.