This Should Be Good.....

[ousdahl]

Another big difference between the two:


At least MJ had the dignity to just shave his head.

Way better than expanding headbands and astro turf.

[Deleted User 289]

Illini - If I wanted to get technical I would point out that LeBron has played for more than 3 teams. He's "only" played for 3 organizations.
I am curious as to how you think Krause ruined those Bulls teams (plural).
In terms of your saying, "it's easy to see why players nowadays look out for themselves and want to play with their friends". It's funny that this morning I was telling two friends that back then players gave a damn about winning with the hand/s they were dealt. They are both considerably younger than I am. I had to explain to them back in the 80s and 90s you went to an NBA game to watch a basketball game. These days many people go to an NBA game to be "entertained" and for the 2-3 hours they are there, there is as much entertainment off the court as there is on it.
It's a much different game and a much different world today.

Sort of side note.
Chicago stadium early days of Jordan = Mostly KNOWLEDGABLE fans, real sports atmosphere, semi affordable for most people.
United Center late days of Jordan = A lot of not mostly CLUELESS fans, see and be seen atmosphere, not affordable for most people.

[NDballer13]

I don’t think Jordan had any intention of playing in ‘99. Lockout, team break-up, etc. The Phil thing made it even easier and was a nice concise way of getting the media off of him.

This very well could be true, but we both know, along with everyone else, that LeBron would be railroaded for eternity if he said the same things MJ said about that situation and conveniently hung it up when those things did happen.

but haven't those things all happened?

not complete apples to apples, but you speak as if Lebron hasn't had any silly GM and coach drama of his own.

What would MJ's legacy be if he unilaterally bounced from team to team, every few years looking for some new all star rival-turned-teammate to be pals?

Agreed, LeBron has had his share of unnecessary GM/coach drama, and look at how he's portrayed as a whining crybaby. MJ does this and he's defended with a "do you blame him" attitude.

[PhDhawk]

Jordan benefits from playing in an era where playing 82 games was every players goal.

Now it would be frowned upon and not even allowed on most teams. There are aspects of the NBA culture that hurt LeBron (or anyone playing today) in these arguments.

[ousdahl]

This very well could be true, but we both know, along with everyone else, that LeBron would be railroaded for eternity if he said the same things MJ said about that situation and conveniently hung it up when those things did happen.

but haven't those things all happened?

not complete apples to apples, but you speak as if Lebron hasn't had any silly GM and coach drama of his own.

What would MJ's legacy be if he unilaterally bounced from team to team, every few years looking for some new all star rival-turned-teammate to be pals?

Agreed, LeBron has had his share of unnecessary GM/coach drama, and look at how he's portrayed as a whining crybaby. MJ does this and he's defended with a "do you blame him" attitude.

how would MJ have been received if, say, he had Phil Jackson chased out of town?

or if he announced he was taking his talents to Houston to pair up with Hakeem?

[Deleted User 289]

[NDballer13]

but haven't those things all happened?

not complete apples to apples, but you speak as if Lebron hasn't had any silly GM and coach drama of his own.

What would MJ's legacy be if he unilaterally bounced from team to team, every few years looking for some new all star rival-turned-teammate to be pals?

Agreed, LeBron has had his share of unnecessary GM/coach drama, and look at how he's portrayed as a whining crybaby. MJ does this and he's defended with a "do you blame him" attitude.

how would MJ have been received if, say, he had Phil Jackson chased out of town?

or if he announced he was taking his talents to Houston to pair up with Hakeem?

Is there any actual proof that LeBron ran coaches out of town, or is this more made up scenarios like saying he hand picked his teams that lost in the Finals? I'm not naive enough to think he hasn't had any influence, or at the very least his opinion considered, when it comes to organizational decisions, but how is that any different from any other star player on their teams? How many free agent meetings happen over the course of a summer where a teams star player/players are attending those meetings? Warriors sent their starting 5 to the Hamptons to meet with Durant. Yet, LeBron says his team needs a shooter, so they trade for Korver, and that all of a sudden means LeBron hand picked him by playing GM.

The double standards he has to deal with are insane. And they are being shown with each passing episode of The Last Dance.

[Deleted User 289]

Agreed, LeBron has had his share of unnecessary GM/coach drama, and look at how he's portrayed as a whining crybaby. MJ does this and he's defended with a "do you blame him" attitude.

how would MJ have been received if, say, he had Phil Jackson chased out of town?

or if he announced he was taking his talents to Houston to pair up with Hakeem?

Is there any actual proof that LeBron ran coaches out of town, or is this more made up scenarios like saying he hand picked his teams that lost in the Finals? I'm not naive enough to think he hasn't had any influence, or at the very least his opinion considered, when it comes to organizational decisions, but how is that any different from any other star player on their teams? How many free agent meetings happen over the course of a summer where a teams star player/players are attending those meetings? Warriors sent their starting 5 to the Hamptons to meet with Durant. Yet, LeBron says his team needs a shooter, so they trade for Korver, and that all of a sudden means LeBron hand picked him by playing GM.

The double standards he has to deal with are insane. And they are being shown with each passing episode of The Last Dance.

Yes there is proof LeBron ran coaches out of town and it's hardly a "made up scenario" that he PLAYED A PART in hand picking his teams. You yourself said in your second sentence what no one should dispute.
MUCH different NBA world we live in today so it's very difficult to make comparisons as to what a guy WOULD or WOULD NOT have done and all we can come up with is MIGHT and MIGHT NOT have done when comparing the eras.
I'm a fool but I'm not foolish enough to pretend that MJ wouldn't have pulled LeBron moves in his career if he played in this era of the NBA. And?
LeBron deserves criticism and LeBron deserves praise. Just like MJ. Right?
It's as shame people can't just say both guys were two the the greatest to play the game, give them their due praise, give them their due criticism, and move on to talking about Magic, Kobe, Bird, and other greats who I feel get ignored in the MJ / LeBron "debate".

[Geezer]

[TDub]

Gutter, that you playing quarters with Mike for $20? Haha

[TDub]

Forgot how much I hated John Starks

[Deleted User 289]

Gutter, that you playing quarters with Mike for $20? Haha

[Deleted User 289]

Powerful endings to 7 and 8.

[LVCHawk]

Powerful endings to 7 and 8.

Great! Especially 7. “Wells thats you, Because you never won anything.”

[ousdahl]

wait, Jordan’s dad just pulled off the road to take a nap? And two thugs just happened to find him? In the middle of nowhere?

I just turned on the replay and might have missed something

[Deleted User 289]

wait, Jordan’s dad just pulled off the road to take a nap? And two thugs just happened to find him? In the middle of nowhere?

I just turned on the replay and might have missed something

Supposedly, yes.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that a guy who had been driving at night, and had possibly been drinking, or maybe was just tired, started dozing off and pulled over on the side of the road to rest/take a nap. I've done it.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that two guys who supposedly had criminal records were driving on a rural road, saw a red Lexus SC400 pulled over on the side of the road, and decided to rob the person in the car. Both guys who were involved said that was their intent. Not sure what their reasoning for shooting him in the chest was. Supposedly that was an accident - but when there are no witnesses other than the person who was robbed, if you shoot that person, you assume you're free and no one can identify you.
They allegedly "stole the car". If they were doing a "hit" on him, why steal the car? Why did they steal his rings? Why did they take his cell phone and actually use it?

I'm not saying I know what "really" happened because for all I know the murder might have been motivated by Jordan's "gambling problem" but too many unanswered questions as to how and why the two guys who did it - did it. Maybe I am foolish but I believe it truly was a robbery and car jacking.

[Deleted User 310]

I agree with Gutter on that. Wrong place wrong time.


Never knew about Pippen refusing to go into a game because of the play being drawn up for Kukoc.

The former teammate interviews are interesting to me. Some love him. Some clearly don't like him.

[Deleted User 289]

Powerful endings to 7 and 8.

Great! Especially 7. “Wells thats you, Because you never won anything.”

You saw him cry twice last night.

[LVCHawk]

I agree with Gutter on that. Wrong place wrong time.


Never knew about Pippen refusing to go into a game because of the play being drawn up for Kukoc.

The former teammate interviews are interesting to me. Some love him. Some clearly don't like him.

Yeah that was always a stain on Pippens legacy for me. I remember watching the game and eventhough I was excited they won it really put a damper on it and carried over into the next season, and longer.

[NDballer13]

wait, Jordan’s dad just pulled off the road to take a nap? And two thugs just happened to find him? In the middle of nowhere?

I just turned on the replay and might have missed something

Supposedly, yes.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that a guy who had been driving at night, and had possibly been drinking, or maybe was just tired, started dozing off and pulled over on the side of the road to rest/take a nap. I've done it.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that two guys who supposedly had criminal records were driving on a rural road, saw a red Lexus SC400 pulled over on the side of the road, and decided to rob the person in the car. Both guys who were involved said that was their intent. Not sure what their reasoning for shooting him in the chest was. Supposedly that was an accident - but when there are no witnesses other than the person who was robbed, if you shoot that person, you assume you're free and no one can identify you.
They allegedly "stole the car". If they were doing a "hit" on him, why steal the car? Why did they steal his rings? Why did they take his cell phone and actually use it?

I'm not saying I know what "really" happened because for all I know the murder might have been motivated by Jordan's "gambling problem" but too many unanswered questions as to how and why the two guys who did it - did it. Maybe I am foolish but I believe it truly was a robbery and car jacking.

The part that got me was I never knew it took weeks to find him and how the body was found in a river. Over all the years I figured a car jacking/robbery happened at some red light or stop sign. Within minutes the cops were there and he was still in the car. Sort of a hit and run gang style.