Kansas Crimson

mark your bingo cards if you had “Minnesota cops kill more people of color before the Chauvin trial even reaches a verdict”

cuuuuz RIP Daunte Wright.

20 year old shot by police while he was pulled over for having an air freshener on his rear view mirror.

Oops, wrong one.

do they feel that similar in the hand?

Know your equipment. No excuse for that mistake.

Body cam footage released.

Some people just aren’t cut out for police work. Mistake that cost a life.


Tangent, a pretty similar mistake happened in Lawrence a few years back.

https://apnews.com/article/ab2b3627e813 ... fc73b863b8

Better training needed but that officer needs to be held accountable - whatever the intention.

taser and pistol aren’t even close to each other on the belt, are they?

it’s easy to judge after the fact, but it just seems like that’s a “mistake” that should never be made

My daughter has a very interesting question (although likely not original) - how many reports have there been of accidental taser use, when cops intended to use their gun? If A can be mistaken for B shouldn’t there be a similar number of B being mistaken for A?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:54 pm taser and pistol aren’t even close to each other on the belt, are they?

it’s easy to judge after the fact, but it just seems like that’s a “mistake” that should never be made

I think the early takeaway is that it's just yet another incident of a suspect with no weapons dying. It's early, but I am not sure this rises to a criminal act.

But, it really calls into question, again, how we are policing, and our police's relationship with the public.

You are going to hear a ton of noise about the suspect not obeying police orders and fleeing. But, for the millionth time, our public policy, our morals, our laws, our social contract with our police and government, etc. is not "disobey, you die."

Yep.
If it causes an inconvenience to officers, that just not justify force.
Power trips need to be minimized in that occupation.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:29 pm I think the early takeaway is that it's just yet another incident of a suspect with no weapons dying. It's early, but I am not sure this rises to a criminal act.

But, it really calls into question, again, how we are policing, and our police's relationship with the public.

You are going to hear a ton of noise about the suspect not obeying police orders and fleeing. But, for the millionth time, our public policy, our morals, our laws, our social contract with our police and government, etc. is not "disobey, you die."

Yeah, there's a lot of questions, but I'm not sure what the criminal liability here except maybe some sort of reckless manslaughter type crime. I think it's fairly obvious based on the facts conveyed that she intended to deploy a taser, and the body cam footage is going to be her best friend here. But damn, you gotta be policing better all around out there. Stop killing black folks.

Still don't understand how the air freshener thing is a law. He was targeted over something usually super small, even if it is illegal.

But alas, usually the gun is on the right side, taser on the left. On most belts that I've seen, including one of my good friends who is a police officer.

Curious to find out stress and reactive training for the department. If you can't decipher which is which during a traffic stop, you are either 1. Not trained enough or 2. Used an excuse that you didn't realize it after you realized you actually fired your weapon. Police officers maybe fire their weapon 3-5 times during their career. It's an adrenaline rush to them. Many just cannot control their adrenaline when it comes down to it.

vega wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:35 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:29 pm I think the early takeaway is that it's just yet another incident of a suspect with no weapons dying. It's early, but I am not sure this rises to a criminal act.

But, it really calls into question, again, how we are policing, and our police's relationship with the public.

You are going to hear a ton of noise about the suspect not obeying police orders and fleeing. But, for the millionth time, our public policy, our morals, our laws, our social contract with our police and government, etc. is not "disobey, you die."

Yeah, there's a lot of questions, but I'm not sure what the criminal liability here except maybe some sort of reckless manslaughter type crime. I think it's fairly obvious based on the facts conveyed that she intended to deploy a taser, and the body cam footage is going to be her best friend here. But damn, you gotta be policing better all around out there. Stop killing black folks.

Not that the Lawrence case is fully instructive, but the Judge there seemed to stress how sudden everything was in that one. From the small amount of footage available, the Minnesota thing seemed less sudden, but there will be plenty said about the heat of the moment.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:39 pm Still don't understand how the air freshener thing is a law. He was targeted over something usually super small, even if it is illegal.

Eh, when I used to shuttle my grandma around, she would always make sure the handicap sign thingy that hangs from the rearview is taken down, because it's the law (even though it annoyed me to no end, because she would remind me every single time I got close to the car. RIP grams). Ignorance of the law is not a defense here, and drivers must comply as long as that law is on the books. At least some people know that law is on the books, and really, that's not on the cop.

If you want to argue the law is dumb or shouldn't be on the books, that's a thing to talk to your legislators about, or bring up in court if you are dinged by it. I've never seen anyone pulled over by it, but I'm super white. The argument that should be brought up is whether it's on the books only to be able to give an excuse to pull over a certain segment of the population. That probably would invalidate the law. That's again something to bring up in the courts. I'm not going to fault the lady cop here for doing something that was within her right to do, without more details. If it turns out she only is pulling over black folks for this, or is using that law to unfairly target someone, then yes, she needs to be disciplined. However, we don't know that, and I'm not going to read into that without an investigation.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:41 pm

vega wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:35 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:29 pm I think the early takeaway is that it's just yet another incident of a suspect with no weapons dying. It's early, but I am not sure this rises to a criminal act.

But, it really calls into question, again, how we are policing, and our police's relationship with the public.

You are going to hear a ton of noise about the suspect not obeying police orders and fleeing. But, for the millionth time, our public policy, our morals, our laws, our social contract with our police and government, etc. is not "disobey, you die."

Yeah, there's a lot of questions, but I'm not sure what the criminal liability here except maybe some sort of reckless manslaughter type crime. I think it's fairly obvious based on the facts conveyed that she intended to deploy a taser, and the body cam footage is going to be her best friend here. But damn, you gotta be policing better all around out there. Stop killing black folks.

Not that the Lawrence case is fully instructive, but the Judge there seemed to stress how sudden everything was in that one. From the small amount of footage available, the Minnesota thing seemed less sudden, but there will be plenty said about the heat of the moment.

From the news reporting I read earlier, it sounded like he struggled and tried to get in his car to flee, she announced "taser" three times, then after she fired, she exclaimed something like "Oh my god, I just shot him." None of that makes it sounds like it was premediate, and based on the evidence, she did not intend to fire a gun. I think that mitigates most of the mens rea for any sort of murder or higher crimes, especially if it's allowable for her to fire a taser at that man at that moment (that, I don't know). I think the thing that she has going against her is how could you be that negligent (again, things moving quickly from your case might show that) and why did she draw her gun instead of her taser (is she used to drawing her gun on people, or did she have a history of excessive force, and this is the one that is going to bite her in the ass). But just based on her statements, it just sounds like she did a bad job, and someone died at one of the worst moments it could have happened.

at least in Kansas, it’s also illegal to drive with a cracked windshield because it can obscure your view

i’ve been cited for it, but have never heard of anyone else having issues

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:59 pm at least in Kansas, it’s also illegal to drive with a cracked windshield because it can obscure your view

i’ve been cited for it, but have never heard of anyone else having issues

Shit, I was driving with light up dice hanging from my rearview and a cracked windshield for 2-3 years from high school starting KU. I didn't know either was a law until recently. Definitely never got harassed for either.

vega wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:55 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:41 pm

vega wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:35 pm

Yeah, there's a lot of questions, but I'm not sure what the criminal liability here except maybe some sort of reckless manslaughter type crime. I think it's fairly obvious based on the facts conveyed that she intended to deploy a taser, and the body cam footage is going to be her best friend here. But damn, you gotta be policing better all around out there. Stop killing black folks.

Not that the Lawrence case is fully instructive, but the Judge there seemed to stress how sudden everything was in that one. From the small amount of footage available, the Minnesota thing seemed less sudden, but there will be plenty said about the heat of the moment.

From the news reporting I read earlier, it sounded like he struggled and tried to get in his car to flee, she announced "taser" three times, then after she fired, she exclaimed something like "Oh my god, I just shot him." None of that makes it sounds like it was premediate, and based on the evidence, she did not intend to fire a gun. I think that mitigates most of the mens rea for any sort of murder or higher crimes, especially if it's allowable for her to fire a taser at that man at that moment (that, I don't know). I think the thing that she has going against her is how could you be that negligent (again, things moving quickly from your case might show that) and why did she draw her gun instead of her taser (is she used to drawing her gun on people, or did she have a history of excessive force, and this is the one that is going to bite her in the ass). But just based on her statements, it just sounds like she did a bad job, and someone died at one of the worst moments it could have happened.

OK, I will go ahead and link it. If I am seeing correctly, doesn't look like she was part of the initial struggle. I agree that murder is off the table here.

I was pulled over in college for my temporary plate not being visible - it was where it was supposed to be but the back of my car hadn't defrosted.

Yeesh, Daily Caller.