Who is the GOAT

[jfish26]

It matters a lot to me that Bron can/could play four or even five positions. That contributes to winning every day of the year.

[TDub]

when he's not laying on the ground writhing in pain from the gentle brush across his chest?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I "think" Jordan was "better" at helping his team win games. That's the most important role of a basketball player to me.

I think LeBron was better at this.
Jordan was the best at completely taking over a game himself.
LeBron is/was the best as a complete player.

Jordan played on talent rich teams when he won his titles, teams that, if you removed Jordan, would be competitive in the league at the time.

LeBron spent a lot of his career on teams who, if you removed LeBron, would have loosing records.
This is why I think LeBron was better at helping his team win games.

I also think the league has gotten better from top to bottom since Jordan played and don't believe a lot of the teams back then would be very good today.

But mostly I try to judge a player by their era ( mostly ) so in this case, Jordan is still 1A to LeBron's very close 1B.

Well said!
My worthless 2 cents in response...

I agree LeBron is/was the best as a complete player but..... How much do we value defense? Right or wrong, I feel Jordan defense > LeBron defense. That has to be am important factor for me.

I agree on the talent rich Jordan teams. I agree they could be (and were) still competitive without him.
LeBron played on some pretty mediocre teams.
For all the flack that LeBron gets for joining "super teams", I have to say what HE and his TEAM did in 06/07 is one of the most impressive things I have witnessed in Basketball.
Therefore, your "This is why I think LeBron was better at helping his team win games" is something I won't argue about - but I am not sure I 100% agree with you if I think over the course of their entire careers and in key moments.

I used to think the league was better from top to bottom when Jordan played. It probably wasn't.
As a whole, as you said ("top to bottom") I feel there are a lot more uber talented guys playing today (recently) than there were when Jordan played.

For the 23,494th time..... I won't disagree with someone who tells me they feel LeBron > Jordan - as long as they do it in a manner in which it is not ignorant. Just as I would say about Jordan supporters.
I don't see why both guys can't just be labeled as being two of the greatest to play the game (and the I'm cool with labeling them what I feel is/was the best of their eras).

[pdub]

I don’t think Jordan was any better a defender as LeBron.

[Overlander]

There is no way that I could ever consider a whining, flopping, blaming pussy as the GOAT of any sport.

Regardless of how many points they score, or how their supporting players are.

[KUTradition]

I don’t think Jordan was any better a defender as LeBron.

eh…they guard(ed) different positions, generally

right?

MJ would seem the better defender on “guard” types while bron would be better on “forward” types

[KUTradition]

also, MJ was all-NBA defensive team 9 times with one DPOY to his credit

bron was runner-up DPOY twice, all-NBA defensive team 6 times

[TDub]

Jordan was clearly and abundantly better on the defensive end. It's not a debate.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I don’t think Jordan was any better a defender as LeBron.

That's a whole other debate. My saying that was a general statement in regards to my sentiment.
If we were to really break it down I could could come up with some reasons why I feel that way but I have zero doubt you would have a lot to counter with, and you would make an excellent (and valid) argument.

[pdub]

Jordan was clearly and abundantly better on the defensive end. It's not a debate.

There very much is a debate.
I think LeBron's versatility to guard every position is worth a lot ( just like his ability to play every position ).
I also think peak LeBron was a better defender than Jordan.

This write up is really well done and mimics a lot of what i'd argue:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/k ... r_michael/

[TDub]

lol...reddit....

[pdub]

OK, so, you didn't even try reading it.
( btw reddit is full of really good content - you just need to know where to look )
Instead you're on here immediately talking about how LeBron flops, lolz, whenever he's ( triggerwarning ) brought up and whenever MJ is brought up as not being the GOAT.

[pdub]

The posters that come in with the 'LeBron iS a PuSsY aNd FloPs' do themselves no justice in the argument. It's demeaning to their opinion on the subject.

[TDub]

I mean...it takes like. 3 seconds to determine he's a flopping, whiny little bitch. That'd also not up for debate


https://youtu.be/RNxsMlpbJfc?si=umGMl2cXl1S2Dh_H

https://youtu.be/Czq4NN0la6w?si=h_c2IBk4FeIt360y

https://youtu.be/1BqsgMFjmQk?si=EqVoji0r6TuRix4J

https://youtu.be/RW5p_ooC6dk?si=Z5Bg47PqRNZH4Sps

[Overlander]

I mean...it takes like. 3 seconds to determine he's a flopping, whiny little bitch. That'd also not up for debate


https://youtu.be/RNxsMlpbJfc?si=umGMl2cXl1S2Dh_H

https://youtu.be/Czq4NN0la6w?si=h_c2IBk4FeIt360y

https://youtu.be/1BqsgMFjmQk?si=EqVoji0r6TuRix4J

https://youtu.be/RW5p_ooC6dk?si=Z5Bg47PqRNZH4Sps

Evidence of LeBrons wussiness is more than abundant

[TDub]

I mean...it takes like. 3 seconds to determine he's a flopping, whiny little bitch. That'd also not up for debate


https://youtu.be/RNxsMlpbJfc?si=umGMl2cXl1S2Dh_H

https://youtu.be/Czq4NN0la6w?si=h_c2IBk4FeIt360y

https://youtu.be/1BqsgMFjmQk?si=EqVoji0r6TuRix4J

https://youtu.be/RW5p_ooC6dk?si=Z5Bg47PqRNZH4Sps

Evidence of LeBrons wussiness is more than abundant

pages upon pages of video evidence for perusal if one is excited by that sort of junk play

[Overlander]

Not to mention, numerous occasions of walking off the floor during games.

Bitch

[pdub]

viewtopic.php?p=405859#p405859

[TDub]

viewtopic.php?p=405859#p405859

so he's not a flopping little bitch? despite the amazing amounts of supporting evidence?


because if he is (which, he is) then his name should be withdrawn from the thread because those two things (flopping little bitch and GOAT) are indeed, mutually exclusive.

[pdub]

I’d defer to that previous link that points to my post about demeaning yourselves.