Let’s have a war!

[KUTradition]

and it’s hilarious (and sad), that you’re using the same tactics and reasoning that putin does

well…the US did this and that decades ago, so i’m justified being an asshole now

[ousdahl]

dude, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. US foreign policy has long had "do as I say not as I do" vibes.

Let me once again condemn Putin - sincerely!

And let me reject your assertion that I mean to justify any of this. I'm condemning all of this! You're the one justifying civilian deaths, not me!

[KUTradition]

You're the one justifying civilian deaths, not me!

lol…whatever

i’m done with this nonsense

[jhawks99]

Oussie, you're both sides-ing this thing to death. Illy would be proud.

[ousdahl]

You're the one justifying civilian deaths, not me!

lol…whatever

i’m done with this nonsense

i really don’t understand why this kind of infrastructure is being made into some kind of controversial target

with the infrastructure in question being, a bridge with (likely) civilians on it at the time it's targeted.

Of course, this may all be moot, if TDub would just kindly offer that source.

but shoot dude, bummed that you're "done with this nonsense." I've lately felt like we were almost getting somewhere otherwise!

[ousdahl]

Oussie, you're both sides-ing this thing to death. Illy would be proud.

sorry 99. I don't mean to be all illy about it.

But the truth is, I DO mean to both sides this. Forgive me if I struggle to accept the one-sided rhetoric you guys are so quick to embrace.

[jhawks99]

Get back to me when Zolinsky rolls his tanks into Russia.

[ousdahl]

his tanks?

you mean ours?

either way, Zelensky raised a fuss the other day about a call for "preemptive strikes" against Russia by the west, but now apparently it was lost in translation or something.


https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-war/ze ... ement.html

[Cascadia]

How are they our tanks? We have some loaner program I’m unaware of?

[ousdahl]

https://www.newsweek.com/tanks-absolute ... 4308?amp=1

Ok, maybe they don’t have our tanks, yet.

But considering how many other weapons we’ve hesitated to provide out of concern that it might escalate things, but then provided them anyway, it may only be a matter of time.

Until then, maybe now’s a good time to buy some General Dynamics stock.

[Cascadia]

Once we give or sell them to Ukraine, they are no longer ours.

And, you need to get back to 99 when they roll the tanks into Russia.

[ousdahl]

let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[Cascadia]

Eh, at this point I would have no problem with Ukraine invading Russia.

[ousdahl]

at least as a whole we seem to agree that Russia invading Ukraine is unconscionable

but I dunno how Ukraine invading Russia would be any better. What would that accomplish?

either way, I'd prefer to avoid nuclear winter.

[Cascadia]

Well, I think of it like a physical assault. If some dude starts throwing punches at me, I’m not going to try and get him to stop, I’m going to punch back.

So I think Ukraine is justified if they want to invade Russia .

And, of course, everyone wants to avoid nuclear war. Well, everyone except Putin. At this point I think it’s likely to happen.

[ousdahl]

I dunno if your physical assault analogy works. If some dude starts throwing punches at you and you punch back in real time, sure. That's self-defense.

Though, self-defense in itself only applies to a certain point. The concept allows for use of force by a victim, yea, but it's expected to be applied in a way "to try and get (the initial puncher) to stop."

If your own punching goes much beyond that, then you too are perpetrating assault. Self-defense does NOT afford you carte blanche permission to keep punching back as much as you please forever and ever.

but, to make the assault analogy work here with Ukraine and Russia, there needs to be some element of an invasion too - say, heaven forbid, someone breaks into your house to punch you. Then, later on, you go break into their house to punch them. At that point, the argument of self-defense is no longer available. And, trying to apply the analogy, I don't think a Ukrainian invasion of Russia would be justified either. It's just asshole behavior being met with more asshole behavior.

[Cascadia]

I don’t want to get hung up on the physical assault analogy but is like to clarify that I never stated I’d punch him over and over again forever.

But to the real issue. We clearly disagree, I think Ukraine would be justified in invading Russia. If they eradicated Russians from their country, got all of their land back (including Crimea) and then went into Russia to fuck a few things up . I’m fine with that. However, I wouldn’t support a long invasion or the taking of any Russian lands.

[TDub]

You're the one justifying civilian deaths, not me!

lol…whatever

i’m done with this nonsense

i really don’t understand why this kind of infrastructure is being made into some kind of controversial target

with the infrastructure in question being, a bridge with (likely) civilians on it at the time it's targeted.

Of course, this may all be moot, if TDub would just kindly offer that source.

but shoot dude, bummed that you're "done with this nonsense." I've lately felt like we were almost getting somewhere otherwise!

I shouldve linked it with my original comment, but I cant find that link again and it looks like its been removed. Its possible that was not accurate information, I'm not sure. My apologies. Russia now claims it was 2 passengers in a nearby vehicle (civilian or military is unknown) and the driver of a the truck.

I would still argue it is not similar to target missile strikes into residential buildings at breakfast time.

[ousdahl]

thanks, TDub. That's big of you to do so, and especially to acknowledge it's possible it was not accurate. No harm in that! The bigger harm would be doubling down.

If I'm a civilian, and I'm suddenly getting bombed, who cares whether I'm in a building or on a bridge? Both of those are places where it's appropriate for a civilian to be, not the kinds of places you can really blame a civilian for being there. And besides, either way, I'm dead.

[ousdahl]

I don’t want to get hung up on the physical assault analogy but is like to clarify that I never stated I’d punch him over and over again forever.

But to the real issue. We clearly disagree, I think Ukraine would be justified in invading Russia. If they eradicated Russians from their country, got all of their land back (including Crimea) and then went into Russia to fuck a few things up . I’m fine with that. However, I wouldn’t support a long invasion or the taking of any Russian lands.

yea, the physical assault analogy isn't worth getting hung up on.

But, I just struggle to justify any militant invasion of one country by another.

as for your justifying a Ukraine invasion of Russia: among other issues, you realize just how big Russia is, right? How far are they supposed to go? You think they'll get all the way to where they can see Sarah Palin's house?