Kansas Crimson

There were numerous dick moves by Pippen both on and off the court during his Bulls tenure. Most known by the public, some not. Meanwhile, overall, Bulls fans forgave him and still loved him. Winning does that. Cures most if not all ills.
I watched ESPN after the airing of episodes 7 and 8 and I thought to myself Wilbon must have a really lousy memory.

Pippen milking his injury in 97-98.
Pippen refusing to play the last 1.8 seconds in the playoff game in 94.
Pippen accusing Bulls fans of being racist because they cheered for a white player and booed Black players. I think that was in 94.
Pippen arrested on a gun charge in 94.
Pippen charged with battery on his fiancé in 95. I know someone who's brother was a cop and went to his house for another "dispute".

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 8:37 am There were numerous dick moves by Pippen both on and off the court during his Bulls tenure. Most known by the public, some not. Meanwhile, overall, Bulls fans forgave him and still loved him. Winning does that. Cures most if not all ills.
I watched ESPN after the airing of episodes 7 and 8 and I thought to myself Wilbon must have a really lousy memory.

Pippen milking his injury in 97-98.
Pippen refusing to play the last 1.8 seconds in the playoff game in 94.
Pippen accusing Bulls fans of being racist because they cheered for a white player and booed Black players. I think that was in 94.
Pippen arrested on a gun charge in 94.
Pippen charged with battery on his fiancé in 95. I know someone who's brother was a cop and went to his house for another "dispute".

Yeah, exactly. I said it earlier in this thread when there were complaints about Pippen's contract in the first weeks episodes, but Pippen wasn't entirely likeable during his time as a Bull. He seems pretty laid back and likeable now, but when he was playing other than being a great player, there wasn't a whole lot to grab onto and like personality wise. He's very lucky Kukoc hit that shot.

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:50 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 11:10 pm wait, Jordan’s dad just pulled off the road to take a nap? And two thugs just happened to find him? In the middle of nowhere?

I just turned on the replay and might have missed something

Supposedly, yes.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that a guy who had been driving at night, and had possibly been drinking, or maybe was just tired, started dozing off and pulled over on the side of the road to rest/take a nap. I've done it.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that two guys who supposedly had criminal records were driving on a rural road, saw a red Lexus SC400 pulled over on the side of the road, and decided to rob the person in the car. Both guys who were involved said that was their intent. Not sure what their reasoning for shooting him in the chest was. Supposedly that was an accident - but when there are no witnesses other than the person who was robbed, if you shoot that person, you assume you're free and no one can identify you.
They allegedly "stole the car". If they were doing a "hit" on him, why steal the car? Why did they steal his rings? Why did they take his cell phone and actually use it?

I'm not saying I know what "really" happened because for all I know the murder might have been motivated by Jordan's "gambling problem" but too many unanswered questions as to how and why the two guys who did it - did it. Maybe I am foolish but I believe it truly was a robbery and car jacking.

yeah, I've pulled over to take a nap before too. With one difference between us and MJ's dad being, when doing so you and I also managed to not get whacked.

The robbery story is plausible, though. How did the two suspects end up getting caught? It does seem like a mob hit job might be more efficient about it, without necessarily stealing stuff too.

the other big difference between us and MJ's dad being, we also weren't superstar GOAT pro athletes with known gambling problems so bad we had to "retire" while right at the very top of the game after having just threepeated. Shrug.

what does the agent gain by getting Zion to admit as much?

If it's relevant to a suit now, wouldn't there potentially be some sort of paper trail at least mentioning some benefits in some context prior?

and there are others named in the suit. It might just be a matter of time til other birds start chirping.

They got caught because they used the bag cell phone from Mr. Jordan's car. The whole story behind the murder of James Jordan deserved a full hour because there is a lot of information that was left out.

yeah the whole thing is so tragic, and so odd...

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 am

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:50 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 11:10 pm wait, Jordan’s dad just pulled off the road to take a nap? And two thugs just happened to find him? In the middle of nowhere?

I just turned on the replay and might have missed something

Supposedly, yes.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that a guy who had been driving at night, and had possibly been drinking, or maybe was just tired, started dozing off and pulled over on the side of the road to rest/take a nap. I've done it.
Not too sure why it's hard to believe that two guys who supposedly had criminal records were driving on a rural road, saw a red Lexus SC400 pulled over on the side of the road, and decided to rob the person in the car. Both guys who were involved said that was their intent. Not sure what their reasoning for shooting him in the chest was. Supposedly that was an accident - but when there are no witnesses other than the person who was robbed, if you shoot that person, you assume you're free and no one can identify you.
They allegedly "stole the car". If they were doing a "hit" on him, why steal the car? Why did they steal his rings? Why did they take his cell phone and actually use it?

I'm not saying I know what "really" happened because for all I know the murder might have been motivated by Jordan's "gambling problem" but too many unanswered questions as to how and why the two guys who did it - did it. Maybe I am foolish but I believe it truly was a robbery and car jacking.

yeah, I've pulled over to take a nap before too. With one difference between us and MJ's dad being, when doing so you and I also managed to not get whacked.

The robbery story is plausible, though. How did the two suspects end up getting caught? It does seem like a mob hit job might be more efficient about it, without necessarily stealing stuff too.

the other big difference between us and MJ's dad being, we also weren't superstar GOAT pro athletes with known gambling problems so bad we had to "retire" while right at the very top of the game after having just threepeated. Shrug.

I would put the odds at 1 million to 1 that I would get whacked if I pulled over on the side of the road to take a nap. Seems odd to me that MJ's dad was the 1 in a million but hey - shit happens.
I was in a bar one night in Chicago and had a couple of drinks. Nothing to get me wasted. Someone "drugged" me and while I was seemingly sober when I dropped off a fellow former Jayhawk at her apartment at maybe around 2:00am, somehow I drove about 30 miles the wrong way (NOT towards my home) and ended up in parking lot where a guy knocked on the window of my car at around 7:00am and asked me if I was alright. Now imagine if I was in some bumble fuck area, it was dark, and two unsavory guys decided to see if I was alright. All of a sudden they realize I'm some defenseless guy wearing some jewelry, and they can jack me. I fight back, they shoot me. While definitely an unlikely scenario, it's not so far fetched.
Shit, people get mugged/robbed/carjacked in broad daylight with other people around.

As far as how they got caught, supposedly they used his cell phone. I would think even if "amateurs" we hired to do a hit, they wouldn't be that dumb. Also, if you did a "hit", why would you take the person's car?

In terms of your claiming his gambling problems were so bad he had to "retire" while right at the very top of his game after having just threepeated - Well, we will never know the real reason MJ "retired" the first time. I'm the guy who says, the NBA felt the need to publicly say they were going to do an investigation and to the best of my knowledge - they never came out publicly with the results. So to me that implies they found something they felt would tarnish MJ and the league. OR - Maybe they didn't find anything? My guess is they found something/s.
That being said, do people really think that MJ wouldn't pay off a debt if his father's life was going to be taken if he didn't pay the debt?

what was his dad doing out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, anyway? Where was he coming from, and going? Did he stop at a rest stop, or somewhere along a rural road just cuz?

as competitive as MJ was, I struggle to believe he would have walked away from the game he was so dominant in playing, just to give some semi-pro other sport a try. That's also my theory for why he wouldn't have just repaid a debt: he had the competitive mindset that "I'll just get back at them by winning the next hand..."

He was driving back to Charlotte from a friends funeral in Wilmington, NC. If you believe the official report he pulled off of the highway to take a nap at 2AM.

Im surprised we havent seen Mike try and make the PGA tour

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:11 am as competitive as MJ was, I struggle to believe he would have walked away from the game he was so dominant in playing, just to give some semi-pro other sport a try. That's also my theory for why he wouldn't have just repaid a debt: he had the competitive mindset that "I'll just get back at them by winning the next hand..."

He clearly hated the bullshit...and after a 3peat maybe he felt he had completed his journey. Nobody else had done that.

I don't think it was a gambling hit simply because that doesn't help you get repaid.

Also, bookies don't really work like that...and it sure seemed like a lot of MJs gambling revolved around golf gambling on himself and casino gambling...i don't think the mob killed his dad. Too sloppy. When the mob kills you many times your body is never found unless they want it found.

Id be very surprised if it was a mob hit

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 1:57 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:11 am as competitive as MJ was, I struggle to believe he would have walked away from the game he was so dominant in playing, just to give some semi-pro other sport a try. That's also my theory for why he wouldn't have just repaid a debt: he had the competitive mindset that "I'll just get back at them by winning the next hand..."

He clearly hated the bullshit...and after a 3peat maybe he felt he had completed his journey. Nobody else had done that.

Didn't he say he was tired and he felt he completed all that he could complete in basketball. He had no more challenges. I think he did baseball because he was bored. Wanted something different, and he wanted something challenging.

Then, the strike happened, and he got the itch for basketball back.

You have people around him that say they knew he was going to retire a year before he did.

Then you have twitter trolls, with 0 supporting facts, say it was a timeout, which would make about as much sense as the Chiefs kicking Mahomes out for 18 months for clubbing too hard.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:49 am You have people around him that say they knew he was going to retire a year before he did.

Then you have twitter trolls, with 0 supporting facts, say it was a timeout, which would make about as much sense as the Chiefs kicking Mahomes out for 18 months for clubbing too hard.

Switch out clubbing for basketball and it's accurate.

The mob hit/suspension labeled as “retirement” to save face theory seemed more universally accepted prior to the doc, and it almost seems like the doc is intended in part to quash rumors.

This is certainly Mike's doc, but "universally accepted," is a tad overstating.

Okay, universal is strong.

More widely agreed upon?

And given MJ’s well-known gambling issues, I just dunno if you can so quickly conclude that had nothing to do with anything.

What’s next - that for the flu game, a known competitive gambler, who was allegedly seen in Vegas late the night before, couldn’t possibly have just been hungover, and really did get the flu in the middle of June?

I can absolutely buy the "hangover" theory for flu game, but I also think Jalen knows how to sell a story and himself.


The dad death conspiracy thing, though, for it to be true there would just have to be something revealed that would suggest it, and there has not been after all these years. This is not meant to be a defense of Mike's character, it's just Occam's razor and all.

Also, I can't believe how many locker room cigars that guy would have. Of course, he mentions the 80's Bulls were having beers and cigs at halftime.

He may have averaged 40 a season with today's health regimen.