Charges

[KUTradition]

Are they going to find him guilty of anything meaningful?

what would you consider meaningful?

i think a guilty verdict for any of the felony charges will do notable damage at the ballot box. i would consider that meaningful, even if there’s no actual jail time (which i don’t see happening anyway)

[DeletedUser]

Are they going to find him guilty of anything meaningful?

what would you consider meaningful?

i think a guilty verdict for any of the felony charges will do notable damage at the ballot box. i would consider that meaningful, even if there’s no actual jail time (which i don’t see happening anyway)

Jail would be meaningful to me, but you're right, any felony guilty will be meaningful at the ballot box.

[pdub]

It's not nearly the worst thing he did during his presidency ( tried to overthrow the Democracy ) but whatever sticks.

[Sparko]

Let's face it: he cheated to win the presidency with the Pecker scams. I jail his ass for five years.

[zsn]

Are they going to find him guilty of anything meaningful?

what would you consider meaningful?

i think a guilty verdict for any of the felony charges will do notable damage at the ballot box. i would consider that meaningful, even if there’s no actual jail time (which i don’t see happening anyway)

Jail would be meaningful to me, but you're right, any felony guilty will be meaningful at the ballot box.

You think? Likes of Psych, randy, mich and lobster would vote for him anyway

[jfish26]

It's not nearly the worst thing he did during his presidency ( tried to overthrow the Democracy ) but whatever sticks.

The issue of course is that he did this to win the presidency in the first place.

Was the underlying act itself that big of a deal? Suppose that’s between people and their god(s).

But this was far more concrete cheating than was committed by the many, many, many people HE has accused of rigging elections.

[DeletedUser]

Does anyone actually care that he paid a pornstar hush money to keep quiet they had sex? Seems pretty par for the course for famous people. Everything requires an NDA it seems.

[jfish26]

Does anyone actually care that he paid a pornstar hush money to keep quiet they had sex? Seems pretty par for the course for famous people. Everything requires an NDA it seems.

I only care to the extent that it illuminates the craven, arch hypocrisy of the right - most of us here are old enough to remember The Great Penis Hunt of 1998. The same group of people who shrieked then that lying about an affair was an impeachable offense, are taking quite a different tack here.

[DeletedUser]

Does anyone actually care that he paid a pornstar hush money to keep quiet they had sex? Seems pretty par for the course for famous people. Everything requires an NDA it seems.

I only care to the extent that it illuminates the craven, arch hypocrisy of the right - most of us here are old enough to remember The Great Penis Hunt of 1998. The same group of people who shrieked then that lying about an affair was an impeachable offense, are taking quite a different tack here.

For sure. I wasn't even a teenager yet when the Bill/Monica thing went down, so don't remember much other than the basics.

[ousdahl]

I wonder if a guilty verdict would do damage at the ballot box.

It obviously should!

But with this candidate in particular, it wouldn’t be the first time some bombshell that would otherwise end anyone else’s political career has little or even reverse effect

[Shirley]

Does anyone actually care that he paid a pornstar hush money to keep quiet they had sex? Seems pretty par for the course for famous people. Everything requires an NDA it seems.

I only care to the extent that it illuminates the craven, arch hypocrisy of the right - most of us here are old enough to remember The Great Penis Hunt of 1998. The same group of people who shrieked then that lying about an affair was an impeachable offense, are taking quite a different tack here.

For sure. I wasn't even a teenager yet when the Bill/Monica thing went down, so don't remember much other than the basics.

Trump's not on trial because he paid a porn star to keep quiet, he's on trial because he falsified business records to hide the transaction in order to influence an election, which is against the law in New York.

Of course, because Trump lies as often as most of us blink, he has always denied the affair:

Yesterday: Republican Mitt Romney: You don't pay someone $130,000 not to have sex with you

[Shirley]

I wonder if a guilty verdict would do damage at the ballot box.

It obviously should!

But with this candidate in particular, it wouldn’t be the first time some bombshell that would otherwise end anyone else’s political career has little or even reverse effect

It won't hurt him with his cult, I mean, base, which is ~ 40% of the electorate. But it certainly could hurt him with independent voters, which could be huge.

[ousdahl]

Yea.

It’s kinda crazy that there really might be some “undecideds” out there, still.

[Shirley]

Does anyone actually care that he paid a pornstar hush money to keep quiet they had sex? Seems pretty par for the course for famous people. Everything requires an NDA it seems.

I only care to the extent that it illuminates the craven, arch hypocrisy of the right - most of us here are old enough to remember The Great Penis Hunt of 1998. The same group of people who shrieked then that lying about an affair was an impeachable offense, are taking quite a different tack here.

Did someone say "hypocrisy"?

All three of the self-righteous, holier than thou, "Moral Majority", "Family Values" Republican speakers* who pursued Clinton's impeachment, Newt Gingrich, Robert Livingston, and Dennis Hastert, were later found to have sex scandals of their own:


It was a sex scandal that put Mr. Hastert into the top House job in the first place. Robert Livingston, a Louisiana Republican in line to replace Newt Gingrich, was forced to step aside after accusations of marital infidelity as the House impeached President Bill Clinton in 1998. Republicans settled on Mr. Hastert, then a deputy to the feared House whip, Tom DeLay of Texas, a figure so polarizing he could not move into the speaker’s chair.

Dennis Hastert, who was accused of sexually abusing at least four teenaged boys while working as a wrestling coach, then subsequently convicted of illegally structuring bank accounts to pay off accusers.

[jfish26]

I wonder if a guilty verdict would do damage at the ballot box.

It obviously should!

But with this candidate in particular, it wouldn’t be the first time some bombshell that would otherwise end anyone else’s political career has little or even reverse effect

It won't hurt him with his cult, I mean, base, which is ~ 40% of the electorate. But it certainly could hurt him with independent voters, which could be huge.

I said this a week or two ago, but relevant again here - I think I misunderstood the possible impact of convictions.

I still don’t think the substance of a conviction (especially on these charges) will change anyone’s mind.

But I have come to think the fact of a conviction will give a modest, but meaningful, portion of Trump voters permission to dump him or simply sit out altogether. That will come with a lot of fake tears, but the result is the result.

[KUTradition]

^^^^^^

i think there is a small, but not insignificant number of moderates and independents that just won’t vote for a convicted felon

[DeletedUser]

I wonder if a guilty verdict would do damage at the ballot box.

It obviously should!

But with this candidate in particular, it wouldn’t be the first time some bombshell that would otherwise end anyone else’s political career has little or even reverse effect

It won't hurt him with his cult, I mean, base, which is ~ 40% of the electorate. But it certainly could hurt him with independent voters, which could be huge.

If he plans on winning he's also going to have to do something about the abortion topic. That is the most important issue to a lot of suburban women, and he needs those to break his way if he's going to beat Biden.

[jfish26]

^^^^^^

i think there is a small, but not insignificant number of moderates and independents that just won’t vote for a convicted felon

I think there’s also a LOT of social (and family) pressure on boomers and Xers to dump Trump. I could absolutely see people in that cohort use these “fake Biden prosecutions” as cover for whinily (but ultimately) giving up on him.

[jfish26]

I wonder if a guilty verdict would do damage at the ballot box.

It obviously should!

But with this candidate in particular, it wouldn’t be the first time some bombshell that would otherwise end anyone else’s political career has little or even reverse effect

It won't hurt him with his cult, I mean, base, which is ~ 40% of the electorate. But it certainly could hurt him with independent voters, which could be huge.

If he plans on winning he's also going to have to do something about the abortion topic. That is the most important issue to a lot of suburban women, and he needs those to break his way if he's going to beat Biden.

What can he say at this point though? He has taken pretty much every position possible on the issue, but the brags about taking credit for Dobbs are pretty damn sticky.

[twocoach]

It won't hurt him with his cult, I mean, base, which is ~ 40% of the electorate. But it certainly could hurt him with independent voters, which could be huge.

If he plans on winning he's also going to have to do something about the abortion topic. That is the most important issue to a lot of suburban women, and he needs those to break his way if he's going to beat Biden.

What can he say at this point though? He has taken pretty much every position possible on the issue, but the brags about taking credit for Dobbs are pretty damn sticky.

Agreed. He has shown that he will continue to put ultra conservative judges in place and continue to drive ultra conservative state level changes that will continue to attack a woman's right to choose. What Trump says about the issue is irrelevant at this point. His ACTIONS have shown voters how things will go under another Trump administration.