Kansas Crimson

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:10 pm second wave (14 dead)

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ks-lebanon

did they not get the memo?

These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:10 pm second wave (14 dead)

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ks-lebanon

did they not get the memo?

These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

Agreed.

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:10 pm second wave (14 dead)

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ks-lebanon

did they not get the memo?

These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

Chill out, TwoCoach, they keep saying “death to Israel”, so it’s simply kill them(Hezbollah) before they kill us(Jews)

the issue isn’t that the terrorists are being killed

dolomite wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:36 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:10 pm second wave (14 dead)

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ks-lebanon

did they not get the memo?

These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

Chill out, TwoCoach, they keep saying “death to Israel”, so it’s simply kill them(Hezbollah) before they kill us(Jews)

Wouldn't it be nice if everything was simple and only terrorists were being killed?

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:02 pm

dolomite wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:36 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm
These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

Chill out, TwoCoach, they keep saying “death to Israel”, so it’s simply kill them(Hezbollah) before they kill us(Jews)

Wouldn't it be nice if everything was simple and only terrorists were being killed?

Welcome to the real world.

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:10 pm second wave (14 dead)

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ks-lebanon

did they not get the memo?

These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:56 pm the issue isn’t that the terrorists are being killed

Right.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:08 pm

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm
These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

In the vein of “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” what you’re suggesting is that Israel becomes Hezbollah by targeting civilians and innocents? I understand that there is no good option for Israel and this isn’t even in the top-100 good options list.

Swap Israelis and Hezbollah/Lebanese (Israel/Lebanon) in your statement and see how it reads. That’s my test for any proposal - see how it looks from the other side. If there is anything that Israel is accomplishing it’s turning more people into terrorism and ensuring that any viable solution is pushed farther into the future.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:08 pm

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm
These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

Gutter, I wish your friends and family could live in their homes peacefully. I wish the same for Palestinians and Lebanese.

When there is violence like this, my mind goes to the kids first. It doesn't matter what their label is or which side of the line they were born.

The next thing I think of is what kind of asshole could do something like this.

Now both sides will escalate and more kids will get hurt, see their parents die and become the next generation of terrorists.

Now I'm depressed

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:32 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:08 pm

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

In the vein of “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” what you’re suggesting is that Israel becomes Hezbollah by targeting civilians and innocents? I understand that there is no good option for Israel and this isn’t even in the top-100 good options list.

Swap Israelis and Hezbollah/Lebanese (Israel/Lebanon) in your statement and see how it reads. That’s my test for any proposal - see how it looks from the other side. If there is anything that Israel is accomplishing it’s turning more people into terrorism and ensuring that any viable solution is pushed farther into the future.

Come on! I'm not suggesting Israel target civilians and innocents. I'm "suggesting" Israel target terrorists - who happen to fucking hate YOU and ME.
Tell me, what "solution" do you think Hezbollah really wants - other than the destruction of Israel and the Jews?
Then tell me, what "solution" do you think Israel really wants - other than to live in peace and exist?

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:42 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:08 pm

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

Gutter, I wish your friends and family could live in their homes peacefully. I wish the same for Palestinians and Lebanese.

When there is violence like this, my mind goes to the kids first. It doesn't matter what their label is or which side of the line they were born.

The next thing I think of is what kind of asshole could do something like this.

Now both sides will escalate and more kids will get hurt, see their parents die and become the next generation of terrorists.

Now I'm depressed

You and I both with the same thing. That anyone and everyone who is "innocent" can live in peace.
My mind goes to the kids too.
I'll be brutally honest. I don't think of the Israeli's who are trying to kill the members of Hezbollah as being assholes. I think of them as being heros and fighting for their and their country's survival.
Yes, it's VERY depressing that innocent lives are being taken because people are trying to live in peace. It's a really fucked up world in that regard.

Israel is stuck between a rock and a hard place, some of it their own doing but much of it (imo) out of their hands

it’s been this way since before i was born, and it would seem that the status quo will remain so long as the power players on all sides maintain their holds

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:01 pm Israel is stuck between a rock and a hard place, some of it they’re own doing but much of it (imo) out of their hands

it’s been this way since before i was born, and it would seem that the status quo will remain so long as the power players on all sides maintain their holds

There was once a great man named Yitzak Rabin.

I have to say, pager and walkie talkie attacks were non-starters in my thoughts of how Israel would respond.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:08 pm

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:41 pm
These attacks are just so disgusting. More kids and innocent people injured and killed. Responding to barbaric attacks with barbaric attacks is vile and barbaric and is not justified in my opinion.

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

Thankfully that wasn't the choice. The choice here was between known Hezbollah members and "whoever is the closest to this device when it goes off". They chose the choice that invoked more terror and fear while knowing and not caring that there would be collateral damage to innocent victims. It's just responding to terrorism with more terrorism. That is always a neverending death spiral of hate and death that leads to more hate and death.

Would I feel differently if I had close family affected by this? Maybe, I can't say for sure since I don't. My heart goes out to any human who finds themselves in the middle of this nightmare.

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 7:13 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:08 pm

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:02 pm

I have to agree. Putting little hand grenades into the public is not fighting a war. It's terrorism.

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

Thankfully that wasn't the choice. The choice here was between known Hezbollah members and "whoever is the closest to this device when it goes off". They chose the choice that invoked more terror and fear while knowing and not caring that there would be collateral damage to innocent victims. It's just responding to terrorism with more terrorism. That is always a neverending death spiral of hate and death that leads to more hate and death.

Would I feel differently if I had close family affected by this? Maybe, I can't say for sure since I don't. My heart goes out to any human who finds themselves in the middle of this nightmare.

Unless you are Mossad and/or have served in the IDF, I think you are presenting an assumption as being factual. I don't doubt that some/many people involved don't/didn't care about "collateral damage to innocent victims" but I happen to know for a fact that some/many do care and don't take pleasure in it.
BIG differences between your goal being trying to wipe out terrorists and there being unfortunate "collateral damage to innocent victims" and your goal being to try to wipe out innocent victims.
Yes, I'll give you that it's responding to terrorism with more terrorism. In this case, if the Israelis don't respond to terrorism with terrorism, then they don't survive. Probably a bad analogy but are you someone who feels the USA should have just accepted what happened on December 7th 1941 and not responded?
Like I said to 99... You, me, him, all 3 of us are all on the same page in regards to our being upset that there are innocent victims being killed. Yes I get that it probably came off that I brushed off and minimized the deaths of innocent Lebanese. I didn't mean to do that.

I suggest that the Lebanese and the Israeli forces get supplied with muskets and have a good ole fashioned scrum. Winner take all!

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 7:48 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 7:13 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:08 pm

99 and twocoach - I completely respect your right to express yourselves. Now I will express myself. Let me ask you this, do you feel the Israelis should just sit back and keep allowing Hezbollah to bomb and burn down northern Israel? I'm 100% in support of Israel wiping each and every Hezbollah member off the face of the Earth. If there are civilian causalities, that truly sucks and is unfortunate to me - but if I have to choose between my Israeli friends and family members being killed or Lebanese people being killed, I'll choose the Lebanese. Sorry.

Thankfully that wasn't the choice. The choice here was between known Hezbollah members and "whoever is the closest to this device when it goes off". They chose the choice that invoked more terror and fear while knowing and not caring that there would be collateral damage to innocent victims. It's just responding to terrorism with more terrorism. That is always a neverending death spiral of hate and death that leads to more hate and death.

Would I feel differently if I had close family affected by this? Maybe, I can't say for sure since I don't. My heart goes out to any human who finds themselves in the middle of this nightmare.

Unless you are Mossad and/or have served in the IDF, I think you are presenting an assumption as being factual. I don't doubt that some/many people involved don't/didn't care about "collateral damage to innocent victims" but I happen to know for a fact that some/many do care and don't take pleasure in it.
BIG differences between your goal being trying to wipe out terrorists and there being unfortunate "collateral damage to innocent victims" and your goal being to try to wipe out innocent victims.
Yes, I'll give you that it's responding to terrorism with more terrorism. In this case, if the Israelis don't respond to terrorism with terrorism, then they don't survive. Probably a bad analogy but are you someone who feels the USA should have just accepted what happened on December 7th 1941 and not responded?
Like I said to 99... You, me, him, all 3 of us are all on the same page in regards to our being upset that there are innocent victims being killed. Yes I get that it probably came off that I brushed off and minimized the deaths of innocent Lebanese. I didn't mean to do that.

Yes, we are all assuming a lot of things since we do not have insider knowledge of the meeting where options were presented and "let's infiltrate the supply line of these pagers that we know that Hezbollah uses, turn them into explosive devices and then set them all off at the same time" was chosen as the course of action. I assume that the question "what if the person with the pager is standing next to a bunch of people in a market or their kid is playing with the pager when it explodes" was asked but maybe it wasn't asked at all. Maybe it was and a gut-wrenching collateral damage assessment was done and they chose this with a heavy heart knowing it would ultimately lead to saved lives of their fellow Israelis. Maybe it was asked and they didn't give two fucks about collateral damage. Like I said, I have no idea.

The deaths of innocent people just trying to go about their lives like us just makes me sad. I could never take a job that would put me in a position to make decisions like this as it would haunt me forever. I am not saying they should have done anything different because I do not truly know everything that goes into such a decision and I cannot truly fathom what it would be like to live in such a place with such real fears of death by random terrorist act.

war is hell