Kansas Crimson

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:53 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:35 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:19 pm
I hate Trump more than most but he has technically managed to accomplish some things. Whether I approve of what they are and their impact long term is another conversation. But let's not lie and say he hasn't gotten anything done.

I think we're saying the same thing, different ways. His administration has gotten some things done. He doesn't personally give a flying fuck about anything but himself, so what matters more to him is the adulation of his donor class.

I think you're missing the point on Trump. You're not alone, of course, which explains why so few people in politics seem equipped to address him as a phenomenon, even NOW.

"Donor class" is irrelevant. Indeed, the traditional donor class serves as his personal foil. That which he does consciously is done specifically with the intention of jabbing his thumb in the eye of the "donor class."

That doesn't mean that he doesn't have donors or that he doesn't do things to accommodate them. He does. But his motivations are different from those of a traditional politician -- for better AND worse.

You're doing that thing where you seize on something that's only ancillary to the point.

You're right - I should not have said "adulation of his donor class." That was an inelegant way to say what I meant, which is "ongoing favorability with people who do or can do things of direct monetary and/or reputational value to Donald J. Trump."

Geezer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:06 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:53 pm

I think you're missing the point on Trump. You're not alone, of course, which explains why so few people in politics seem equipped to address him as a phenomenon, even NOW.

"Donor class" is irrelevant. Indeed, the traditional donor class serves as his personal foil. That which he does consciously is done specifically with the intention of jabbing his thumb in the eye of the "donor class."

That doesn't mean that he doesn't have donors or that he doesn't do things to accommodate them. He does. But his motivations are different from those of a traditional politician -- for better AND worse.

Gibberish

Nah.

I c a n t a l k s l o w e r i f i t h e l p s y o u, t h o u g h.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:26 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:53 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:35 pm

I think we're saying the same thing, different ways. His administration has gotten some things done. He doesn't personally give a flying fuck about anything but himself, so what matters more to him is the adulation of his donor class.

I think you're missing the point on Trump. You're not alone, of course, which explains why so few people in politics seem equipped to address him as a phenomenon, even NOW.

"Donor class" is irrelevant. Indeed, the traditional donor class serves as his personal foil. That which he does consciously is done specifically with the intention of jabbing his thumb in the eye of the "donor class."

That doesn't mean that he doesn't have donors or that he doesn't do things to accommodate them. He does. But his motivations are different from those of a traditional politician -- for better AND worse.

You're doing that thing where you seize on something that's only ancillary to the point.

You're right - I should not have said "adulation of his donor class." That was an inelegant way to say what I meant, which is "ongoing favorability with people who do or can do things of direct monetary and/or reputational value to Donald J. Trump."

You're doing that thing where you seize on something that's only ancillary to the point.

No, I'm actually not. I'm saying that I think you misjudge what he is after. And you do so at your own peril (metaphorically speaking, natch).

"ongoing favorability with people who do or can do things of direct monetary and/or reputational value to Donald J. Trump."

This is closer, but still not quite it. Obviously, I'm not going to chide you for being cynical about him. Cynicism is the only reasonable reaction to him. Nevertheless, I think the ego-stroking he's after is both more closely related to that of traditional politicians than you appear to believe and, at the same time, less concerned with standard ruling-class expectations.

In many ways, I think there is a Peronista quality to him and his politics. Unlike, say, Barack Obama, he doesn't want to be seen as a "great statesman" or a "great policy advocate." He wants to thought of as a "great man." And that carries with it a certain intentional, cultivated, BUT genuine populist appeal. I think it's too easy to get carried away in the cynicism about him and to presume the worst possible motivation for all his actions. That's not only unthinking and intellectually lazy, it also makes understanding and responding to him effectively much more difficult.

If you start with the assumption that everything, in the end, is intended to burnish his image and is therefore, by definition, purely self-interested, then you can maintain normative distance and perspective, even as you try to see how the things he does can be of benefit to others or at least perceived as such. To dismiss everything he does as self-interested in the specific sense (even as it undoubtedly is in the general sense) is to miss and misunderstand his appeal.

lobster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:19 pm

chiknbut wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:06 pm

lobster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:02 pm Youtube is a source for determining what people want. Look at the like/dislike ratios and comments. You can pretend it's not, but you're just ignoring reality.

Wikipedia was pretty bad when it was new, but it has grown into a decent starting point. It often provides links to better sources.

Things change. People don't sell horses anymore.

LOL.

Tell me how I'm wrong? You can't.

Seriously, where do you start with this guy? Should anyone even start? Can it be worth it?

lol at the like/dislike ratio on this one.

lobster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:58 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:37 pm

lobster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:26 pm Well, if you read what I actually wrote, it would help...

"Unbiased source of public opinion" is exactly the same as saying "biased news source". When you move from reporting the news to giving your opinion on the news then it is the very definition of bias.

Let me show you what I actually wrote...

"Youtube is as close to an unbiased, honest view of public opinion that we have."

I do not have a reading problem. But there is no such thing as an unbiased public opinion.

A video of Joe Rogan blabbering his bias fueled opinion on YouTube is no difference than Dom Lemon blabbering his bias fueled opinion on CNN.

Opinion = Bias

I never said there was an unbiased platform. I said that IMDB and Youtube serve as two of the sources closest to an unbiased form of feedback. It's a subtle but important distinction. The point being, if you want to get what is most likely an accurate reading, those two platforms are your best bet right now. All of the news stations are biased, as is everyone. The goal is to try to be as objective as possible, but we all know it's impossible to be 100% objective.

lobster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:05 pm I never said there was an unbiased platform. I said that IMDB and Youtube serve as two of the sources closest to an unbiased form of feedback. It's a subtle but important distinction. The point being, if you want to get what is most likely an accurate reading, those two platforms are your best bet right now. All of the news stations are biased, as is everyone. The goal is to try to be as objective as possible, but we all know it's impossible to be 100% objective.

the problem is that youtube, like facebook and other social media platforms, while it like does contain unbiased information, that information is in the minority when compared to the extremes that are there for the taking...and nobody is policing. it’s like taking the msnbc and breitbart slants to an even great extreme

add to that the tracking algorithm that continues to feed bs to people who are prone to seek it out, and voila, crazy begets crazy

Speaking of crazy...ever checked out the comments under some of these tweets that get posted by angry liberals?

That's where a lot of people are getting their "news".

Interesting to me how people focus strictly on the differences while seemingly ignoring that liberals and conservatives are very similar in some regards. If not identical.

Grandma wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:08 am Interesting to me how people focus strictly on the differences while seemingly ignoring that liberals and conservatives are very similar in some regards. If not identical.

Very true. Tons of similarities. Mirror images in a lot of ways even if complete opposite stances on whichever topic.

That's why some liberals hate when people point it out so they so "no more whatsboutism allowed" or "both sides do it isn't allowed".

He's not wrong:

Feral wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:27 am He's not wrong:

We need 3 parties. Crazy left. Crazy right. Normal people. If normal people didn't have to pick between the 2 crappy parties we'd be a lot better off.

I’ll admit I’m kind of mused by Bloomberg’s attempts to go viral on meme pages

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:13 am I’ll admit I’m kind of mused by Bloomberg’s attempts to go viral on meme pages

Bernies people are nuts. But, im not sure Bernie doesnt like that.


Im sure getting tired of bloomberg commercials. I cant imagine how much worse thats going to get over the next few months.

mb seems to be an extremely boring personality. He is like an emotionless robot in his commercials. I wonder if he is like that in real life. Or maybe he gets camera shy.

I know hes spending tons of money ti get his name out there but there is such a thing as oversaturation. When every other gd ad is a bloomberg ad people are going to start hating him.

KY is a small state and not really in question. We aren't having a ton of ads yet. I'm sure it's coming.

The only one I'm really seeing is Moscow Mitch declaring that he's saving health care for all.

TDub wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:45 am

Im sure getting tired of bloomberg commercials. I cant imagine how much worse thats going to get over the next few months.

Oh, the unknown joys of being cable and antenna free!!