Kansas Crimson

Not being a lawyer, I wonder how close the back-channel realignments are to illegal trusts. For example, say the BiG entered into a secret agreement with schools bound by other covenants and the television networks to defraud other conference (PAC-12) members? Basically leveraging an agreement at the expense of the others. The intent was to diminish value of the former alliance in order to enhance the secret one.

I don't know about it escalating to white collar crime--that's clearly out of my wheelhouse--but certainly I can imagine that if any non-B1G school were in on any of this new negotiation stuff that the former conference and/or schools might want to look into contractual damages for breach.

The uncomfortable part of that, though, is I can imagine an argument that ESPN is another potential plaintiff in that scenario. Of course, ESPN was negotiating with the B1G as well, so they were likely aware of any non-B1G school that was part of the B1G bid.

But, don't shed any tears for the non-B1G conferences as they are all trying to make their own pitches to ESPN, CBS, NBC, Fox, Amazon, Apple TV, et al., presumably with their own secrets and wink-wink deals with non-member school as part of their bids.

When the greed is at this level, it's hard to find the sympathetic parties.

Why would ND not join the Big Ten now? I mean, no way are they raking in almost a billion $ being independent. And this probably means KU will never get an invite and we will be left with the crumbs of the PAC10, unless they decide to join the Mountain West.

shindig wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:24 pm Why would ND not join the Big Ten now? I mean, no way are they raking in almost a billion $ being independent. And this probably means KU will never get an invite and we will be left with the crumbs of the PAC10, unless they decide to join the Mountain West.

I don't know that ND's model is sustainable further into the 21st Century. But, the justification to date is that ND gets more on a yearly basis by negotiating themselves with networks than they would if they get 1/18th of B1G pie every year. Yes, even if that pie is worth $1b over 7 years. Then add on the extra cash they get for being in the ACC in every other sport.

Plus, I think they think part of their brand value is their independence. It also allows them autonomy over scheduling, which in turn leads to TV value. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any school in the country that would not want to schedule a Home and Home with ND. But again, I'm not sure it's going to be sustainable into the future.

As for KU, I don't think we can assume anything other than the athletic department being very aware of the situation.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:34 pm

shindig wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:24 pm Why would ND not join the Big Ten now? I mean, no way are they raking in almost a billion $ being independent. And this probably means KU will never get an invite and we will be left with the crumbs of the PAC10, unless they decide to join the Mountain West.

I don't know that ND's model is sustainable further into the 21st Century. But, the justification to date is that ND gets more on a yearly basis by negotiating themselves with networks than they would if they get 1/18th of B1G pie every year. Yes, even if that pie is worth $1b over 7 years. Then add on the extra cash they get for being in the ACC in every other sport.

Plus, I think they think part of their brand value is their independence. It also allows them autonomy over scheduling, which in turn leads to TV value. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any school in the country that would not want to schedule a Home and Home with ND. But again, I'm not sure it's going to be sustainable into the future.

As for KU, I don't think we can assume anything other than the athletic department being very aware of the situation.

i read a quote earlier today that surfaced when they were offered to be #12

"Our brand name is something special. We'd rather be one of one than one of 12."

they’re also rumored to be on the cusp of $75 mil annual media rights payout

so long as they have a path to the CFP, they’re currently getting everything they want

also read an interesting take, that the B1G should stop scheduling and doing business with ND, and make it clear that this is their last offer of membership. let the cards fall where they may

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:25 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:34 pm

shindig wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:24 pm Why would ND not join the Big Ten now? I mean, no way are they raking in almost a billion $ being independent. And this probably means KU will never get an invite and we will be left with the crumbs of the PAC10, unless they decide to join the Mountain West.

I don't know that ND's model is sustainable further into the 21st Century. But, the justification to date is that ND gets more on a yearly basis by negotiating themselves with networks than they would if they get 1/18th of B1G pie every year. Yes, even if that pie is worth $1b over 7 years. Then add on the extra cash they get for being in the ACC in every other sport.

Plus, I think they think part of their brand value is their independence. It also allows them autonomy over scheduling, which in turn leads to TV value. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any school in the country that would not want to schedule a Home and Home with ND. But again, I'm not sure it's going to be sustainable into the future.

As for KU, I don't think we can assume anything other than the athletic department being very aware of the situation.

i read a quote earlier today that surfaced when they were offered to be #12

"Our brand name is something special. We'd rather be one of one than one of 12."

they’re also rumored to be on the cusp of $75 mil annual media rights payout

so long as they have a path to the CFP, they’re currently getting everything they want

also read an interesting take, that the B1G should stop scheduling and doing business with ND, and make it clear that this is their last offer of membership. let the cards fall where they may

If the B1G wanted to force their hand, that would be the way to do it. I doubt there would be too many happy ND fans if they weren't playing OsU, Penn St, Michigan, Michigan St. etc. I don't follow ND, but do they schedule games with the SEC?

shindig wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:31 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:25 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:34 pm

I don't know that ND's model is sustainable further into the 21st Century. But, the justification to date is that ND gets more on a yearly basis by negotiating themselves with networks than they would if they get 1/18th of B1G pie every year. Yes, even if that pie is worth $1b over 7 years. Then add on the extra cash they get for being in the ACC in every other sport.

Plus, I think they think part of their brand value is their independence. It also allows them autonomy over scheduling, which in turn leads to TV value. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any school in the country that would not want to schedule a Home and Home with ND. But again, I'm not sure it's going to be sustainable into the future.

As for KU, I don't think we can assume anything other than the athletic department being very aware of the situation.

i read a quote earlier today that surfaced when they were offered to be #12

"Our brand name is something special. We'd rather be one of one than one of 12."

they’re also rumored to be on the cusp of $75 mil annual media rights payout

so long as they have a path to the CFP, they’re currently getting everything they want

also read an interesting take, that the B1G should stop scheduling and doing business with ND, and make it clear that this is their last offer of membership. let the cards fall where they may

If the B1G wanted to force their hand, that would be the way to do it. I doubt there would be too many happy ND fans if they weren't playing OsU, Penn St, Michigan, Michigan St. etc. I don't follow ND, but do they schedule games with the SEC?

not sure, but i doubt it since they’ve got the ACC agreement and USC in addition to all those matchups you mentioned

seems like there wouldn’t be enough games to go around

none this year

Georgia in 2019 looks like the last time

they’ve scheduled USF, ISU and cincy in that same span

SEC schools don't schedule a lot of high level non-con games.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:43 pm SEC schools don't schedule a lot of high level non-con games.

What?!?!? Typically they schedule one high level non-con game. Off the top of my head Alabama-Texas,
Auburn-Penn St, Georgia-Oregon, Florida-Utah, Miss St-Cinnci,Texas AM-Miami, LSU-Fla ST, USCjr-Clemaon all this year.

Yeah, I agree with you. The SEC plays a lot of big name games. Kentucky is the only SEC school not playing any major name non con games.

Bama plays Utah State and Texas
Arkansas plays Cincinnati
Auburn plays Penn State
Florida plays Utah and Florida State
Georgia plays Oregon
LSU plays Florida State
Miss. State plays Memphis and Arizona
Missouri plays Kansas State
Ole Miss plays Georgia Tech
South Carolina plays Clemson
Tennessee plays Pitt
A & M plays Miami
Vandy plays Wake Forest

hartjack8 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:15 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:43 pm SEC schools don't schedule a lot of high level non-con games.

What?!?!? Typically they schedule one high level non-con game. Off the top of my head Alabama-Texas,
Auburn-Penn St, Georgia-Oregon, Florida-Utah, Miss St-Cinnci,Texas AM-Miami, LSU-Fla ST, USCjr-Clemaon all this year.

That's since their P5 mandate. But I still don't consider 1 P5 non-con game per team a lot, especially if we are counting Utah and Kansas State as a high level opponent.

Certainly not enough where ND would be able to fill up their schedule with SEC teams over the last 10-15 seasons (particularly pre-mandate) which was the subject of my reply.

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:28 pm Yeah, I agree with you. The SEC plays a lot of big name games. Kentucky is the only SEC school not playing any major name non con games.

Bama plays Utah State and Texas
Arkansas plays Cincinnati
Auburn plays Penn State
Florida plays Utah and Florida State
Georgia plays Oregon
LSU plays Florida State
Miss. State plays Memphis and Arizona
Missouri plays Kansas State
Ole Miss plays Georgia Tech
South Carolina plays Clemson
Tennessee plays Pitt
A & M plays Miami
Vandy plays Wake Forest

Might just be a semantics argument but opponents like Utah State, Cincinnati, Utah, Memphis, Arizona, Kansas State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Wake Forest would not have qualified for me as examples of SEC schools scheduling "high level" non-con games.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:45 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:28 pm Yeah, I agree with you. The SEC plays a lot of big name games. Kentucky is the only SEC school not playing any major name non con games.

Bama plays Utah State and Texas
Arkansas plays Cincinnati
Auburn plays Penn State
Florida plays Utah and Florida State
Georgia plays Oregon
LSU plays Florida State
Miss. State plays Memphis and Arizona
Missouri plays Kansas State
Ole Miss plays Georgia Tech
South Carolina plays Clemson
Tennessee plays Pitt
A & M plays Miami
Vandy plays Wake Forest

Might just be a semantics argument but opponents like Utah State, Cincinnati, Utah, Memphis, Arizona, Kansas State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Wake Forest would not have qualified for me as examples of SEC schools scheduling "high level" non-con games.

Utah, Pitt, Wake Forest and Cincinnati are all ranked in the preseason Top 25. Utah is actually at #7 preseason. Utah State finished last year ranked.

I don't see any other conferences schedule nearly as many higher level P5 or ranked teams like the SEC does.

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:51 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:45 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:28 pm Yeah, I agree with you. The SEC plays a lot of big name games. Kentucky is the only SEC school not playing any major name non con games.

Bama plays Utah State and Texas
Arkansas plays Cincinnati
Auburn plays Penn State
Florida plays Utah and Florida State
Georgia plays Oregon
LSU plays Florida State
Miss. State plays Memphis and Arizona
Missouri plays Kansas State
Ole Miss plays Georgia Tech
South Carolina plays Clemson
Tennessee plays Pitt
A & M plays Miami
Vandy plays Wake Forest

Might just be a semantics argument but opponents like Utah State, Cincinnati, Utah, Memphis, Arizona, Kansas State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Wake Forest would not have qualified for me as examples of SEC schools scheduling "high level" non-con games.

Utah, Pitt, Wake Forest and Cincinnati are all ranked in the preseason Top 25. Utah is actually at #7 preseason.

Again, might just be semantics. And context matters, the comparison being going somewhere like Notre Dame Stadium for a non-con game--a little different environment and TV channel than Winston-Salem, NC.

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:51 pmI don't see any other conferences schedule nearly as many higher level P5 or ranked teams like the SEC does.

I also stopped watching college football in like, 2005, so some of this could be dated. Pre-mandate, the SEC's awful non-con scheduling was a huge topic.

For whatever reason, I perceive Clemson, USC, Oklahoma to always be in early season clashes. Meanwhile Alabama is beating Stephen F. Austin 66-0.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:58 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:51 pmI don't see any other conferences schedule nearly as many higher level P5 or ranked teams like the SEC does.

I also stopped watching college football in like, 2005, so some of this could be dated. Pre-mandate, the SEC's awful non-con scheduling was a huge topic.

For whatever reason, I perceive Clemson, USC, Oklahoma to always be in early season clashes. Meanwhile Alabama is beating Stephen F. Austin 66-0.

Oklahoma used to do bigger home and away series, with Notre Dame in 12 and 13, Tennessee in 14 and 15 and Ohio State in 16 and 17. That last Ohio State game was Oklahoma's last non-con game against a ranked team. They finish up a home and away with Nebraska this year. Nostalgic but certainly not much of a challenge.

Reason #8923 why I am not a CFB fan--teams are too damn scared to lose a single game because of the god-awful postseason format.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:15 pm Reason #8923 why I am not a CFB fan--teams are too damn scared to lose a single game because of the god-awful postseason format.

This. I don't watch much college football as well. Might have a game on the teevee on a Saturday afternoon, but I don't sit and watch an entire game. A top 5 matchup early in the season "might" peak my interest a little more.

I'm not sure why we have just come to accept college football games taking 4 even 5 hours to play.