Kansas Crimson

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:19 pm

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:05 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:03 pm

What's disingenuous?

These two things can be, and I believe are, true at the same time: (1) the current athlete compensation model is unethical and immoral, and (2) the current athlete compensation model is bad for college basketball (and, with it, KU basketball).

You rarely, if ever, concede that athletes are being paid. You almost always frame it as free, forced labor of poor black kids for the benefit of rich white people.

And, again, I'm fine with them being compensated more than they are now. But, generally speaking, the people who advocate for this the loudest almost always present a false narrative.

I think I've been pretty consistent in acknowledging that that they are compensated, and that what they get has value.

What is self-evident from the existence of a black market is that what they get is clearly not representative of their true value.

I've also been consistent in my view that the reasons they can't access something closer to that true value are pretty evil, at bottom, and bad for the long-term health of the sport to boot.

Well, then take it as feedback from your audience. I've been reading your arguments on this topic for years and I disagree that you consistently acknowledge the fact that they are getting compensated. I'd also point out that I don't think you've never made an effort to find out what the value of the current compensation is and compared that number to what you think their fair market value truly is.

And slightly related to the conversation, I don't think additional compensation will make the game/sport any better. I think it's going to continue to be worse and worse over time. The college game is sandwiched in-between to garbage leagues and there isn't much that they can do to fix that. High School and the NBA are dominated by selfish players who can't be coached. Hard for college teams to do anything differently.

It feels like more than half the time, people confuse the discussion and think the schools would be paying the players - which isn't the case.

Literally the schools don't have to do anything. They would just have a team, provide those players the same level of amenities and academics they do today, and most importantly no longer have to worry about whether or not Joe's guardian was offered and took an envelope full of cash from a shoe company.

I just don't get the digging in of heels by some folks here.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:16 pm No idea. I'd advise doing your own market research.

Careful bro, pretty sure it’s impermissible to use terms like “market” when discussing student ath-o-letes.

Also, let's be honest here. The NIL is going to happen and boosters are going to start paying kids shit tons of money to do menial tasks. Which, is great for us because we have deep pockets, but it's really going to suck for some schools.

"Hey #75 recruit, here's $175,000 for shooting a 30 second commercial for the local Ford dealership"

Which, at the very least, is a credible way of doing what’s already going on.


The alternative is the status quo of, “here’s a paper bag full of cash but don’t say nothin cuz you could loose eligibility and get federal charges to boot.”

kubowler99 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:27 pm It feels like more than half the time, people confuse the discussion and think the schools would be paying the players - which isn't the case.

Literally the schools don't have to do anything. They would just have a team, provide those players the same level of amenities and academics they do today, and most importantly no longer have to worry about whether or not Joe's guardian was offered and took an envelope full of cash from a shoe company.

I just don't get the digging in of heels by some folks here.

And at least with KU/big schools, most of the current "compensation" is funneled through WEF/KUAC and paid by private donors.

I don't disagree, my point is any "market" around these players isn't a true open market. It will be more like a card collecting market. Idiot rich guys pumping large amounts of money into their pet projects.

Which, again, this is great for us.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:12 pm How many other “employees” in other industries are likely to be approached by some third party with a bag full of cash?

My line of work.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00291-2

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:35 pm I don't disagree, my point is any "market" around these players isn't a true open market.

This

And I don’t see how simply shredding light on such a market is ever a bad thing.

Sure, there could still be these back alley boosters regardless, but wouldn’t that likely only diminish if there were otherwise credible channels to do this?

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:29 pm Also, let's be honest here. The NIL is going to happen and boosters are going to start paying kids shit tons of money to do menial tasks. Which, is great for us because we have deep pockets, but it's really going to suck for some schools.

"Hey #75 recruit, here's $175,000 for shooting a 30 second commercial for the local Ford dealership"

I proposed opening NIL to sophomores and up, so it was less likely to be used as a recruiting tool.

We're also glossing over the whole free education thing. I mean there are threads on other boreds bemoaning the cost/monetary value of a college education and how the average joe can't afford it. To the vast majority of student athletes that's very valuable.

When I read about what jfish posted it makes me want the education side to be reinstated. Not moved further toward being a job.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:39 pm

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:29 pm Also, let's be honest here. The NIL is going to happen and boosters are going to start paying kids shit tons of money to do menial tasks. Which, is great for us because we have deep pockets, but it's really going to suck for some schools.

"Hey #75 recruit, here's $175,000 for shooting a 30 second commercial for the local Ford dealership"

I proposed opening NIL to sophomores and up, so it was less likely to be used as a recruiting tool.

I actually think that doesn't really fix the issue, because shoe companies will just do what they do now.

Yeah. I don’t want it to be more of a “job,” per se, but I also don’t want a student to miss out on opportunities any other student could pursue just cuz they also happen to be an ath-o-lete too.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:46 pm Yeah. I don’t want it to be more of a “job,” per se, but I also don’t want a student to miss out on opportunities any other student could pursue just cuz they also happen to be an ath-o-lete too.

What percentage of non athletes profit from their NIL?

Just a thought here and not yet offering conclusions: on average, education costs exponentially more than it's worth. Especially when you factor in socioeconomics.

depends on the education, but i’d generally agree with that

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:48 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:46 pm Yeah. I don’t want it to be more of a “job,” per se, but I also don’t want a student to miss out on opportunities any other student could pursue just cuz they also happen to be an ath-o-lete too.

What percentage of non athletes profit from their NIL?

100% of those who get the opportunity.

With the key word being opportunity. It’s not like it’s impermissible for anyone else.

How much has the NCAA profited off of those NILs?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:46 pm Yeah. I don’t want it to be more of a “job,” per se, but I also don’t want a student to miss out on opportunities any other student could pursue just cuz they also happen to be an ath-o-lete too.

But that's all you argue. "How many jobs do x, how many do y?"

Well how many jobs have boosters to contribute outside money not generated by the product at all. The lakers never as jack nicholson to pay $5 million to attract lebron to town. But thst infrastructure is in place in college ball. Or for your concern, kfc can't ask the booth family to pay $90,000 for a student to learn to fry chicken.

It's not like other jobs/markets.

Yeah, it’s not like other jobs or markets.

The lakers could ask Nicholson, or KFC could ask the Booths, if they wanted to. There’s not The Rules in place not to.