Kansas Crimson

As someone who spent the better part of two years in Italy I recommend very highly. Resist the urge to see a lot of places in one trip and spend a lot on time in a few places. Trying to shoehorn Italy and Greece in one trip is folly because you’re not going to do justice to either.

The A4 corridor between the French border and Slovenian border and the Ligurian coast is worth at least a couple of weeks. Our go-to resource is Rick Steves. We avoid package tours because we like to plan but count on getting lost. Some of the best experiences in Europe were as a result of getting lost!

Rome is worth way more than a couple of days - I’d give a minimum of four especially if you like art. I also avoid city museum/attractions passes as it’s hard to do justice. You can buy tickets online to many places and skip lines. Local transit passes are great but if you plan ahead buying individual rail tickets in advance is a lot cheaper than rail passes. This is especially the case if you fly into one city, use as base to explore nearby then move to another city, stay for a few days, third city and finally fly out of there.

For Italy I suggest flying in to Milan, spend about 4 days, train to Florence and use as base for 4 days, train to Rome and return 4-5 days later. Fares to Milan are often lower than any other Italian city.

I spent 3 nights in Florence, Rome, Venice and Naples.

In hindsight, I wish I could have taken a night from Venice and Naples and applied it to Florence.

But again, if you both dont like crowds, these places arent for you.

If you've got 12 nights, and want scenery, buy 3 country eurail, fly into Rome for 3, train to Florence for 3, long train ( the trip itself is beautiful ) to Interlaken Switzerland ( no big crowds, gorgeous scenery, hike mountains ) for 3, train to Frankfurt for 3 ( with 1 night in nearby Hiedelberg which is exactly what one thinks of when asked to imagine a medieval castle and village, probably cheapest flight home ) or Munich for 3 ( more expensive flight home but more traditional German city ).

Venice is worth a couple of days, but not more than 3. A day at least each in Verona, Padua and Montua is highly recommended. Verona would be a good base. I neglected to include southern Switzerland in my suggestion. Lugano and Ascona are about an hour from Milan. You could use Como as a base there. St Moritz is on the other side of the Valtellina valley (fantastic wines). Truly off the beaten path, except for the local tourists.

A “new” wine region being “discovered” is Franciacorta which is the area around Brescia, south of Lago Garda. Driving the back roads in September is bucket list experience.

If you can sneak very northern Italy or Switzerland in your trip, that might wet the "no crowds, beautiful scenery" whistle.

I still vote New Zealand tho.

Switzerland is underrated

There’s a reason why it was “neutral” in wwii.

Can’t fuck with those mountains.

i don’t mean to give the wrong impression re: crowds

they aren’t gonna keep us from seeing some of the wonders of this world, particularly if we’re going to a place like Italy

but, if Rome is on the itinerary, you can bet there will also be some time in the countryside or a small coastal village for balance...or even a natural park. fun fact: there are some lizards that were released on KU’s campus a couple decades ago, behind Fraser i think. they’re invasive Italian Wall Lizards. much of Europe also has some beautiful venomous snakes of the genus Vipera

and again, thanks everyone for your input...it’s quite helpful

My last time in italy, after seeing the entire West coast, I took a train to Brindisi, and, from there, a ferry to Patras, Greece. From Patras I went clockwise north and east to Thessalonica and then dropped down into Athens. After a couple of weeks taking day trips out of Athens to see the coast and visit some islands, I took a ferry to Crete. In hindsight I wish I would have added the Dalmatian Coast to my itinerary.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:34 am i don’t mean to give the wrong impression re: crowds

they aren’t gonna keep us from seeing some of the wonders of this world, particularly if we’re going to a place like Italy

but, if Rome is on the itinerary, you can bet there will also be some time in the countryside or a small coastal village for balance...or even a natural park. fun fact: there are some lizards that were released on KU’s campus a couple decades ago, behind Fraser i think. they’re invasive Italian Wall Lizards. much of Europe also has some beautiful venomous snakes of the genus Vipera

and again, thanks everyone for your input...it’s quite helpful

You're welcome.

still leaning towards Italy, but putting Ecuador/Galapagos on the list for sure

reconnected with a friend last night who had a trip to Namibia cancelled last minute, and so opted for a trip to the Galapagos...she’s a marine biologist and absolutely raves about it, even from just a tourist’s perspective/experience

then, i see this new option for mainland Ecuador and the Amazon this morning: https://www.mandaripanga.com/

Tent camping on 10th anniversary?
My BUD would murder me.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:51 am Tent camping on 10th anniversary?
My BUD would murder me.

it’s more “glamping”, but i get your point

"A small solar panel and battery are used to charge phones, cameras and similar. Otherwise there is no electricity at the camp."

Murdered.

No AC? Mrs 99 would murder me too.

lol

if only you guys knew my wife...to give you at least a sense, she was jumping at the chance to catch pit-vipers in the Philippines and free-hand scorpions in Costa Rica

edit: but she’s no embodiment of she-Wookies

I'd go with the jungle camping and tortoise watching then.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:09 pm lol

if only you guys knew my wife...to give you at least a sense, she was jumping at the chance to catch pit-vipers in the Philippines and free-hand scorpions in Costa Rica

edit: but she’s no embodiment of she-Wookies

Ha! Joke’s on you bro, cuz you just admitted your wife can’t even make the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:04 pmi’m just a little over a year out

Keep time of year in mind. One of my most recent dumbass moments was being in the southern hemisphere last month, and while it made hardly any difference, it completely escaped my mind until a local said, "well, it's winter here."

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:41 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:04 pmi’m just a little over a year out

Keep time of year in mind. One of my most recent dumbass moments was being in the southern hemisphere last month, and while it made hardly any difference, it completely escaped my mind until a local said, "well, it's winter here."

that consideration hadn’t crossed my mind, so thanks

we’ve thought about that sort of thing for specific events, like sea turtle nesting/hatching, but it hadn’t crossed my mind for this trip

i’m still thinking Italy because of the “milestone”, and it looks like fall is a pretty good time

I know next to nothing about Italy--It is just my preference to travel internationally when less layers are required for lighter packing.

You seem to have no geographical restriction on this trip, so pretty obvious that you will find a great spot.