Kansas Crimson

as trump himself said, he loves him some uneducated voters

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:20 am

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:03 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:01 am I don’t think this result really says anything about the Ds or their candidates.

in a big huge way, respectfully disagree.

now is precisely the time for Dems to be looking in the mirror; doing some serious soul searching, or whatever they say.

Sure. No disagreement.

But I guess what I’m saying is - I don’t think there was, as a 2024 campaign matter, a policy or candidate choice that would have led to a different result here.

Its been many years that the Dems haven't properly addressed the matterS (plural), the policieS (plural), and candidateS (plurals), that would have led to different resultS (plural) here (2024).
I know you realize that it wasn't just who was voted the President of the United States that is extremely embarrassing for the Dems. Right?

I look at the title of this thread and say to myself - I feel as such but for more than half of American voters, America succeeded. For those of us who feel America Failed, well - many of us failed. Failed to realize AND ADDRESS what was inevitable unless major reflection/s and change/s were made.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:24 am I do…if combined with Biden realizing he wasn’t fit for a second term.

Would more time have helped break through the nonreality bubble? Maybe. I could also see an argument that a blitz campaign like Harris’s would have been the better strategy anyway.

I think ultimately this was about the specific timing of our exit from high inflation, combined with the capture of our information ecosystem (and the durability of some human-nature ugliness in our instincts).

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:28 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:26 am Sensible humble perspective on why trump was elected:

Tell it to someone who cares.
We don’t.

Do you really not care? I don't believe that.
A significant part of what he said is why you started this thread.

A while back I came up with a theory of sorts:

know how the traditional wisdom has been that the incumbent candidate had an edge?

I kinda think the new trend will be the opposite.

the challenger will have a sort of edge. This comes due to the fact both parties are controlled by the same moneyed interests, which makes them in so many ways the same party.

And as inequality grows greater and the rich get richer and the material conditions of average Americans get worse and worse, they'll view each election season as a chance for change, blaming the incumbent on the worsening material conditions, rather than the system as a whole.

It's what happens when you have no party that actually serves the interests of workers. That comes from the bigger issue of a working class with no real class consciousness. Sorry, maybe that's annoying (welcome back Qusdahl.)

I also (joke alert!) have this theory for this particular election that maybe there's just an underestimatedly large demographic of single-issue voters out there whose single issue is they don't like the fact Grover Cleveland was otherwise the only potus to serve nonconsecutive terms.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:42 am

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:24 am I do…if combined with Biden realizing he wasn’t fit for a second term.

Would more time have helped break through the nonreality bubble?

psst! just a friendly heads up. The nonreality bubble bursts both ways.

Maybe. I could also see an argument that a blitz campaign like Harris’s would have been the better strategy anyway.

I think ultimately this was about the specific timing of our exit from high inflation, combined with the capture of our information ecosystem (and the durability of some human-nature ugliness in our instincts).

Blitz campaign coulda been a game changer, if it actually delivered. I'm just afraid voters weren't thrilled with the status quo, and Kamala didn't do much to offer anything but.

And/or it's as simple as Merica at large just really not being down with a woman in charge. (sigh)

"There is not a thing that comes to mind."
"I've been a part of most of the decisions that have had impact."

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:43 am

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:28 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:26 am Sensible humble perspective on why trump was elected:

Tell it to someone who cares.
We don’t.

Do you really not care? I don't believe that.
A significant part of what he said is why you started this thread.

Considering his post history and who he is—no I absolutely do not.

He can tell it to Twitter who wherever he gets his “news” from.

I never thought we'd see Trump win a popular vote AT ALL, let alone win it by damn year 5 million (at the moment)

and Trump def sucks, but I also think he's less the disease itself and more just a symptom.

I'm afraid the republic is not well.

You could put a comma in the thread title and it wouldn’t be so wrong.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:05 am I'm afraid the republic is not well.

Obviously not if a person like he can win the majority vote to lead our nation.

just thinking out loud about all the potential policies a candidate could have championed for this election:

- economy's big and can be taken a bunch of directions
- minimum wage (she floated $15/hour but spoiler alert, so did Biden in 2020)
- Healthcare! This one's huge. It was her big initiative on the campaign trail in 2020 but she abandoned it and subsequently dropped out, too bad. Now we're two elections removed from a goddamn pandemic, healthcare is still ridiculously expensive, and yet we get nothing more than either trying to brag about or fuss about about a plan passed like 15 years ago and 4 administrations ago.
- climate change. That still a thing?
- reproductive rights...come up with an actual plan to actually codify Roe you buncha pussies.
- warmongering. If Biden/Harris invested in something that actually benefited Americans half as quick as they invested in multiple foreign conflicts, who knows
- Genocide. Related to the last point. Hard to tell how much this one actually influenced things. But, holy shit, it shouldn't be this difficult to NOT have such a horrific thing associated with you administration, ESPECIALLY when you're campaigning on little more than "vote for us cuz we're NOT the fascists!" I'm afraid a whole generation of young Americans watched Palestinian kids get slaughtered on social media the same way we saw George Floyd murdered in the street thus spawning the BLM movement, but again, who knows how much this mattered.

also things like immigration, weed, voter rights, Citizens United, any number of anything for which an actual vision was an opportunity to have popular appeal more so than some status quo.

and if the retort to any of these things is, "but pubs is in the way," then maybe we should all ask ourselves if Dems are gonna continue to be useless toward republican obstruction then what good Dems are even for?

And that's not to say the message of "Trump is a threat" is not valid. But the prob is, dems ran on little more than that. And also that's the same kind of messaging Trump is using. And to use the same shit against him is at some point to try and beat him at his own game, which is just wrestling a pig in mud.

4 years. I hope the country can withstand the coming storm.

4 years...I mean, what's the o/u on future Trump impeachments?

Who knows, maybe pubs actually grow a pair and remove him this time. Prob not tho considering they took control of the Senate and prob the House too.

The other thing is, Trump is old as fuck, and not exactly a model of healthy living.

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

"Healthcare! This one's huge."
5th one down.

"climate change."
10th one down.

"reproductive rights"
11th one down.

"also things like immigration, weed, voter rights, Citizens United, any number of anything for which an actual vision was an opportunity to have popular appeal more so than some status quo."

Read up.

uninformed hot takes?

nah…

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:39 am https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

"Healthcare! This one's huge."
5th one down.

"climate change."
10th one down.

"reproductive rights"
11th one down.

"also things like immigration, weed, voter rights, Citizens United, any number of anything for which an actual vision was an opportunity to have popular appeal more so than some status quo."

Read up.

good finds!

5th one down..."Expanding and strengthening the Affordable Care Act" sounds more like "trying to brag about a plan...from 15 years and 4 administrations ago" more so than it does her 2020 campaign idea of single payer/medicare for all

10th one down...if the Inflation Reduction Act really is doing the great things she says it is, she should have campaigned on it harder, and/or considered maybe it wasn't as great as she says it is

11th one down...she basically punts the issue of reproductive rights to the states and congress. Wish she did a better job of articulating her plan for getting congress and/or the states on board.

Good for her for finally putting some platform issues on her website, tho. When Biden stepped down and she got the nod I remember criticism that she did NOT have any real platform on her site, for several weeks after her effective nomination.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:43 am uninformed hot takes?

nah…

settle down, George Costanza. So you were in the pool, okay, whatever.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:42 am

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:24 am I do…if combined with Biden realizing he wasn’t fit for a second term.

Would more time have helped break through the nonreality bubble? Maybe. I could also see an argument that a blitz campaign like Harris’s would have been the better strategy anyway.

I think ultimately this was about the specific timing of our exit from high inflation, combined with the capture of our information ecosystem (and the durability of some human-nature ugliness in our instincts).

Harris was one of the least popular choices in the Dem primary in 2020.

They ignored that. And it mattered.

Again, it had to be Harris at the point it became Harris. But, it should have never gotten that far. We spent several years pretending Biden was going to be good to go for a 2nd term. When in reality, he wasn't.

I think we'll be fine. We survived Trump's first term. We will survive his second term too.