Kansas Crimson

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:39 am

DrPepper wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:26 am There was an armed guard at the Buffalo Tops grocery store. A 56 year old retired Cop. He landed a shot. How did that work out?

Are we putting armed forces at every church/mosque entrance and night club too?

There were armed police officers who engaged the shooter at this elementary school as well. It stopped nothing.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/us/uvald ... index.html

"As he tried to enter the school, the gunman was engaged by school district police officers but got into the building and opened fire, Estrada told CNN. "

Guess that solves it then! It would never be effective.

Stupid logic.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:17 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:12 am

Leawood wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 7:55 am Because some loan officer for farms in downstate Illinois who plays 9 holes while smoking pot and who argues to argue thinks this is okay

Yep

Nobody thinks "this" is ok.


And if that was an attempt at making fun of me it was a terrible effort.

I am not a loan officer.
I don't smoke pot.
I don't own guns.
I rarely play just 9 holes. Or 9 hole courses in general.


And regular citizens have no ability to change any gun laws.


We've got plenty of money for various things. We need stricter gun laws. And unfortunately we need armed police at every school (which will also cause other problems, but will help stop so many kids from dying when these inevitably happen).

Interesting rebuttal omission....."argues to argue".

UnholyLivingDead wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 7:56 am

shindig wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 7:47 am 19 children dead, 2 adults. This country is messed up. 18 year old shooter had an AR15 and high capacity hand gun, mostly likely a beretta or glock. How does an 18 year old buy a high capacity assault rifle and the bigger question, why are these even being made?

I cannot for the life of me understand why the country as a collective feels like average, everyday, run of the mill citizens should have unchecked access to military-grade firearms. These types of guns are made for one purpose: to kill as many people as quickly and efficiently as possible. That's why they are used in the military. Now I know the answer is money and the gun lobby. And I also understand that when you say something like this, the don't touch my guns people just argue semantics about what an AR-15 is or whatever. But whatever. There's no reason why we can't have some type of common sense process where people should have to prove they are proficient and competent enough to own a firearm. Geezus.

Because a portion of our nation ignores certain parts of the Constitution that might impinge on what they want while focusing on the parts that will allow them to do what they want and feel superior to someone else.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

They ignore the "well regulated" part. Maybe we should create a new branch of our military called the "Citizens Militia", have it made up entirely of volunteers, and make ownership of a gun contingent on mandatory service in it. Then require monthly training and a set number of service hours in the militia per week so that they are well prepared once the government turns on the citizens of the US or we are invaded by whatever bad guy they think is coming. This militia will earn their service hours by staffing all churches and all high school level and below schools in America free of charge. Then they have the chance to prove both parts of their argument; that this is about the Constitution and that having more guns will deter shootings.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:41 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:39 am

DrPepper wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:26 am There was an armed guard at the Buffalo Tops grocery store. A 56 year old retired Cop. He landed a shot. How did that work out?

Are we putting armed forces at every church/mosque entrance and night club too?

There were armed police officers who engaged the shooter at this elementary school as well. It stopped nothing.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/us/uvald ... index.html

"As he tried to enter the school, the gunman was engaged by school district police officers but got into the building and opened fire, Estrada told CNN. "

Guess that solves it then! It would never be effective.

Stupid logic.

It might help in certain scenarios but it is proving out not to be THE fix to the problem.

I turned on the ABC News last night and saw Chris Murphy's (CT) speech about gun violence. My wife asked me to change the channel afterwards because it was depressing. I turned to Fox News instead to see how they were discussing the events of yesterday. They were showing video of the exterior of the school "that fence in only 4 feet high anyone could climb over it" and "why wasn't there a police officer in the school?". She said, "wow, so we need to fortify schools?".

Nothing is going to change as long as the NRA owns half of Congress and half of the citizens have bought into the fantasy that they live in a TV Western. I read a line this morning, "One Nation Under Guns". That pretty much says it.

sooo

what's this whole border patrol angle?

Among the "reassuring" bullet points in the email my district's superintendent sent around this morning was:

• We train staff and students on how to protect themselves.

Some country we've got here.

DrPepper wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:26 am There was an armed guard at the Buffalo Tops grocery store. A 56 year old retired Cop. He landed a shot. How did that work out?

Are we putting armed forces at every church/mosque entrance and night club too?

The Buffalo kid was also in full tactical gear, probably even bullet proof vest. Another question, how did he accumulate this stuff w/o anybody noticing?

shindig wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:13 am

DrPepper wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:26 am There was an armed guard at the Buffalo Tops grocery store. A 56 year old retired Cop. He landed a shot. How did that work out?

Are we putting armed forces at every church/mosque entrance and night club too?

The Buffalo kid was also in full tactical gear, probably even bullet proof vest. Another question, how did he accumulate this stuff w/o anybody noticing?

Because anyone can. That's the point.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:51 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:41 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:39 am

There were armed police officers who engaged the shooter at this elementary school as well. It stopped nothing.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/us/uvald ... index.html

"As he tried to enter the school, the gunman was engaged by school district police officers but got into the building and opened fire, Estrada told CNN. "

Guess that solves it then! It would never be effective.

Stupid logic.

It might help in certain scenarios but it is proving out not to be THE fix to the problem.

There is no 1 single fix. Unless there is some way to go back in time and make guns not exist?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:00 am sooo

what's this whole border patrol angle?

He saw him going into the school and followed him from what I have read.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:29 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:51 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:41 am

Guess that solves it then! It would never be effective.

Stupid logic.

It might help in certain scenarios but it is proving out not to be THE fix to the problem.

There is no 1 single fix. Unless there is some way to go back in time and make guns not exist?

Of course there's not a single fix. Nor is there one for cancer or car crashes or coconut allergies or cat-borne viruses or anything, really.

I've mentioned it before, but were I in charge, I'd start with mandatory liability insurance, just like with cars. Let the market price the risk.

so some reports suggest border patrol was already pursing/engaging the shooter before he entered the school? But I dunno about that, think that's been debunked?

And the narrative that a lone border patrol agent in the area heroically ran in and got the guy. And thank the lord he did!

Was the border patrol agent on active duty? I've seen suggestions he was an off-duty agent who just happened to be in the area, though I dunno what difference that makes.

There's the question of why a city not on the border is crawling with border patrol anyway, but that's for another thread.

And there's the question of whether law enforcement can proactively do anything to prevent these sorts of things. Uvalde apparently has no shortage of Border Patrol, local cops, sheriffs, etc. already. Is throwing even more money at cops a good response here? Does that help prevent things like school shootings, or just result in things like more traffic ticket revenue?

And is ICE different from border patrol? Cuz reports that both were on the scene. Considering it's a majority hispanic school, not sure that passes the smell test. Some reports that ICE was checking papers, but let's give the benefit of the doubt and say all LEO agencies really were there only to help.

and yet, just imagine if you were a panicked parent just trying to go check on your kid whose school just got shot up, but you also suddenly have to worry that doing so might get you deported. What a country!

One day Q. can we go one day?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:35 am And is ICE different from border patrol? Cuz reports that both were on the scene. Considering it's a majority hispanic school, not sure that passes the smell test. Some reports that ICE was checking papers, but let's give the benefit of the doubt and say all LEO agencies really were there only to help.

and yet, just imagine if you were a panicked parent just trying to go check on your kid whose school just got shot up, but you also suddenly have to worry that doing so might get you deported. What a country!

i have watched a decent amount of news coverage in the last 20 hours. i have seen nothing about checking papers and checking immigration status and deporting parents.

cool story whackjob.

japhy wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:43 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:17 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:12 am

Yep

Nobody thinks "this" is ok.


And if that was an attempt at making fun of me it was a terrible effort.

I am not a loan officer.
I don't smoke pot.
I don't own guns.
I rarely play just 9 holes. Or 9 hole courses in general.


And regular citizens have no ability to change any gun laws.


We've got plenty of money for various things. We need stricter gun laws. And unfortunately we need armed police at every school (which will also cause other problems, but will help stop so many kids from dying when these inevitably happen).

Interesting rebuttal omission....."argues to argue".

Well that's more subjective.

I prefer call it discussing rather than arguing.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:41 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:35 am And is ICE different from border patrol? Cuz reports that both were on the scene. Considering it's a majority hispanic school, not sure that passes the smell test. Some reports that ICE was checking papers, but let's give the benefit of the doubt and say all LEO agencies really were there only to help.

and yet, just imagine if you were a panicked parent just trying to go check on your kid whose school just got shot up, but you also suddenly have to worry that doing so might get you deported. What a country!

i have watched a decent amount of news coverage in the last 20 hours. i have seen nothing about checking papers and checking immigration status and deporting parents.

cool story whackjob.

JFC. He can't help himself.

It's like he's never signed a kid up for school. They require things to enroll. You don't just show up day 1.

Also very telling that he thinks since it's majority hispanic that there must be illegal immigrants among them.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:29 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:51 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:41 am

Guess that solves it then! It would never be effective.

Stupid logic.

It might help in certain scenarios but it is proving out not to be THE fix to the problem.

There is no 1 single fix. Unless there is some way to go back in time and make guns not exist?

There will always be murder (Cain and Abel style), but no one does violence like the USA. So how do you explain that?
Have other countries not taken back the guns?
Have other countries not restricted who can have certain guns?
Do other countries not have well organized militias, but the general citizens are not armed with assault rifles?

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:34 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:29 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:51 am

It might help in certain scenarios but it is proving out not to be THE fix to the problem.

There is no 1 single fix. Unless there is some way to go back in time and make guns not exist?

Of course there's not a single fix. Nor is there one for cancer or car crashes or coconut allergies or cat-borne viruses or anything, really.

I've mentioned it before, but were I in charge, I'd start with mandatory liability insurance, just like with cars. Let the market price the risk.

That's a good one.

I'd also impose a tax so high on non hunting weapons that acquiring them becomes nearly impossible for many people.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:59 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:34 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:29 am

There is no 1 single fix. Unless there is some way to go back in time and make guns not exist?

Of course there's not a single fix. Nor is there one for cancer or car crashes or coconut allergies or cat-borne viruses or anything, really.

I've mentioned it before, but were I in charge, I'd start with mandatory liability insurance, just like with cars. Let the market price the risk.

That's a good one.

I'd also impose a tax so high on non hunting weapons that acquiring them becomes nearly impossible for many people.

A friend of mine suggested yesterday that nothing will really change here until a black kid shoots up a private school full of white kids.

Unfortunately I'm not sure I even agree with that; it's got strong "the NCAA was so mad at Kentucky that they gave Cleveland State two years' probation" vibes.