Israel/Palestine

[BiggDick]

oh, and like right now, as we speak...guess who's bombing the suburbs of Beirut?

[jfish26]

Paul Begala probably?

[BiggDick]

In the latest episode of,

“Oh so THIS is how it could get worse under Trump…”

https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-829140

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

In the latest episode of,

“Oh so THIS is how it could get worse under Trump…”

https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-829140

I'm a simpleton. I don't get it. What is "THIS" that could get worse under Trump?

[BiggDick]

When Israel/Lebanon conflict?

[MICHHAWK]

so i looked it up. the last time there was NOT conflict in the middle east was 1,327 years ago.

so. this is pretty standard stuff. they actually like it.

[Overlander]

so i looked it up. the last time there was NOT conflict in the middle east was 1,327 years ago.

so. this is pretty standard stuff. they actually like it.

Yeah, they definitely seem to be having a great time

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

When Israel/Lebanon conflict?

This is a much better article on the subject.
https://jewishcurrents.org/inside-the-m ... fon-israel

Here is where I am confused. Why do you feel Trump will make this and/or any other situation in the Middle East worse?
I thought Trump's desire is to end "the war/s" and help create "peace". Yes? No?
I thought he's already reached out to leaders. Yes? No?
I suppose - yes, if Israel was to take over southern Lebanon and create Israeli settlements things could be worse for the Lebanese who would be booted (during a Trump Presidency). No worse than if they stayed and continued to get the shit bombed out of them but yes, worse than it was before..... Before what?
Here is a crazy thought, while obviously not ideal, what if Israel said, we will pay for or have your government pay for you to move to a place where you can live comfortably in peace - or you can stay among the terrorists and there is a decent chance your home will be destroyed and/or you will die before we occupy the land?
Sort of like a reverse 2005.

[BiggDick]

Trump's offered this "end the war" rhetoric about the "wars" generally.

But he's also offered this cryptic "finish the job" rhetoric regarding Israel/Palestine.

And while he has been grossly cozy to Russia and their bullshit, he has been grossly NOT to anything Muslim.

and among other thoughts...it sucks but gutter's post is yet another example of how "terrorist" is a relative term.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Yes, "terrorists" come in all shapes and sizes. "Terrorism" is bad no matter how you slice it.
I prefer Trump not be cozy to Muslim terrorists, just as you prefer he not be cozy to Israeli (Jewish?) "terrorists".
If someone asked me to choose between Israeli's existence and Hezbollah, and Hamas', and Houthis', and.... existence, I'm going to chose Israel's 365/366 days a year. As bad of "terrorists" as they may (or may not) be.
Who's would you choose? Be honest.

[MICHHAWK]

i vote the middle east blows its'self off the earth. into smithereens.

they are working on it. maybe in another 900 years.

[KUTradition]

i vote michigan does the same

[BiggDick]

I'd rather Trump/our own government not be cozy to ANY "terrorists." And yea, there should be a distinction between Jewish people and Israelis, and Zionists. At least that's what my Jewish friends have told me. So, I guess to answer the question, I'll choose no terrorists.

As for the question of, "before what?", let's at least realize that Hezbollah and Hamas and Houthi are all fairly recent developments, which came to be AFTER the modern nation of Israel became a thing....for whatever that's worth.

But, the whole part about "we will pay for or have your government pay for you to move to a place where you can live comfortably in peace - or you can stay among the terrorists and there is a decent chance your home will be destroyed and/or you will die before we occupy the land..." That sounds like some kinda mob racketeering or something, doesn't it?

what next, maybe if I play ball and agree to your terms then maybe you offer me protection from these bricks being thrown thru my windows...?

[BiggDick]

also, now the Pope too is calling to investigate genocide allegations in Gaza

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I'd rather Trump/our own government not be cozy to ANY "terrorists." And yea, there should be a distinction between Jewish people and Israelis, and Zionists. At least that's what my Jewish friends have told me. So, I guess to answer the question, I'll choose no terrorists.

As for the question of, "before what?", let's at least realize that Hezbollah and Hamas and Houthi are all fairly recent developments, which came to be AFTER the modern nation of Israel became a thing....for whatever that's worth.

But, the whole part about "we will pay for or have your government pay for you to move to a place where you can live comfortably in peace - or you can stay among the terrorists and there is a decent chance your home will be destroyed and/or you will die before we occupy the land..." That sounds like some kinda mob racketeering or something, doesn't it?

what next, maybe if I play ball and agree to your terms then maybe you offer me protection from these bricks being thrown thru my windows...?

I wrote a way too long response. I'll come up with a shorter one later.

[BiggDick]

ICC issues arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

ICC issues arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant

How do you expect people to react to that? With a HORRAY? or an OH NO?

Interesting. You didn't mention they also issued an arrest warrant for dead Muhammad Deif (and other Hamas "leaders"? - as they said they were going to do). Why is that?

Yeah, the same ICC that the USA considers to be little more than a Kangaroo Court is going to issue an arrest warrant that is about as meaningful as....... I honestly don't know. Do you?

Here is my response to the news......

[KUTradition]

i’m sure he thinks it’s validating

[BiggDick]

yea, I saw they also issued a warrant for some dead dood. Since he's dead, I thought mentioning it was moot. The article I saw didn't mention warrants for more Hamas leaders, but I'm not surprised.

But yea, for better or worse, the ICC warrants prompt little more than a, "meh." If only we had some actual rules-based order, but alas.

But, if there IS a distinction to make, it's that we all know Hamas are terrorists. And, as such, fair to say we all know they're some sorta war criminals too. Dunno if there's much we can do about that.

Israel, however, is one of the/perhaps thee closest ally to the U.S., and the allegations against Israel comes pretty directly through our ongoing weapons support. Maybe there IS something we can do about that?

Not that we will.

I'm tempted to go for some snarky comment like, "we only care about war crimes when it's the bad guys committing them," but instead lemme just once again say, "meh."

The article I read, at least, makes another distinction:

Israel responded furiously to the warrants, with Netanyahu's office branding the decision "antisemitic," rejecting the charges as "absurd and false" and condemning the ICC as a "biased and discriminatory political body."

Hamas welcomed the warrants as an "important step towards justice" but senior political official Basem Naim said the court's decision "remains limited and symbolic if it is not supported by all means by all countries around the world to implement it."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/icc- ... rcna181138

but yea, again, meh.

One last thought on "all countries around the world to implement," is that Israeli leadership is/was more likely to visit other countries that may actually try to enforce the arrest warrant. But again again, prob not.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

yea, I saw they also issued a warrant for some dead dood. Since he's dead, I thought mentioning it was moot. The article I saw didn't mention warrants for more Hamas leaders, but I'm not surprised.

But yea, for better or worse, the ICC warrants prompt little more than a, "meh." If only we had some actual rules-based order, but alas.

But, if there IS a distinction to make, it's that we all know Hamas are terrorists. And, as such, fair to say we all know they're some sorta war criminals too. Dunno if there's much we can do about that.

Israel, however, is one of the/perhaps thee closest ally to the U.S., and the allegations against Israel comes pretty directly through our ongoing weapons support. Maybe there IS something we can do about that?

Not that we will.

I'm tempted to go for some snarky comment like, "we only care about war crimes when it's the bad guys committing them," but instead lemme just once again say, "meh."

The article I read, at least, makes another distinction:

Israel responded furiously to the warrants, with Netanyahu's office branding the decision "antisemitic," rejecting the charges as "absurd and false" and condemning the ICC as a "biased and discriminatory political body."

Hamas welcomed the warrants as an "important step towards justice" but senior political official Basem Naim said the court's decision "remains limited and symbolic if it is not supported by all means by all countries around the world to implement it."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/icc- ... rcna181138

but yea, again, meh.

One last thought on "all countries around the world to implement," is that Israeli leadership is/was more likely to visit other countries that may actually try to enforce the arrest warrant. But again again, prob not.

Just so you realize I am not someone who refuses to absolve Israel because of my allegiance....

You said, "Israel, however, is one of the/perhaps thee closest ally to the U.S., and the allegations against Israel comes pretty directly through our ongoing weapons support. Maybe there IS something we can do about that"?
I don't know. Is there something we can do about that? One might think there is a big difference between offense and defense but to me it is a fine line between the two. Unfortunately Israel must go on offense to defend itself. Does it need to run up the score? Again, unfortunately I believe Israel does. To protect themselves, and to protect the " best interests" of the world. Including the USA.
Yet again I will say unfortunately, the citizens are the pawns in the game.

In regards to the "distinctions", Israel has been having an on going feud with the ICC. I don't disagree with Netanyahu saying the ICC is a "biased and discriminatory political body." BUT..... I admit I do feel the "charges" are not so "absurd and false". I feel Netanyahu and Israel have committed "war crimes" based on the ICC's definition/s of "war crimes". But you know what? Hamas has too. Two wrongs don't make a right but let's be real, before October 7th 2023, the ICC has been more anti Israel and pro Hamas. In a perfect world Israel and Hamas would only be allowed to use Socker Boppers to "fight" each other. We don't live in a perfect world. Some people (including MICH) feel in a perfect world Israel would be wiped off the face of the Earth and all of this would be over. Israel prefers that doesn't happen. There is a fine line between "bombing the shit out of" and wiping off the face of the Earth. If Israel wanted to, they could wipe multiple countries off the face of the Earth. They don't. My concern is if/ when Iran decides it's time to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. I feel there is a better chance of that happening than Israel wiping any other country off the face of the Earth.

Yes, of course Hamas welcomed the warrants. They are against two Israeli guys and a dead Hamas guy. If they were against living Hamas guys, something tells me they wouldn't "welcome" those.