Kansas Crimson

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:43 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:15 pm Rather than waiting for an accident to happen (and/or the risk of Biden getting beat a year from now), why not just have Uncle Joe take a dignified, “I’d like to spend more time with my family” sort of retirement farewell, which no one would begrudge?

I really hope dems don’t sit idly waiting for an accident

I think the issue is that everyone on the left seems more or less fine lining up behind Biden. I am not sure there is presently another candidate who can hold the two ends of the party together to the degree needed to weather what’s left of the MAGA storm.

I personally would love to see someone else running instead.

But, if that someone else is too lefty, you’ll lose support from the middle. And if that person is too middle, you run the risk of a third party running from the left.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:29 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:43 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:15 pm Rather than waiting for an accident to happen (and/or the risk of Biden getting beat a year from now), why not just have Uncle Joe take a dignified, “I’d like to spend more time with my family” sort of retirement farewell, which no one would begrudge?

I really hope dems don’t sit idly waiting for an accident

I think the issue is that everyone on the left seems more or less fine lining up behind Biden. I am not sure there is presently another candidate who can hold the two ends of the party together to the degree needed to weather what’s left of the MAGA storm.

I personally would love to see someone else running instead.

But, if that someone else is too lefty, you’ll lose support from the middle. And if that person is too middle, you run the risk of a third party running from the left.

I just think the issue is that Biden was picked in 2020 because he was seen as the safest bet to defeat Trump and now the major party people don't want it to reflect poorly on the Dem party if they go a different route. "If you turn your back on Biden then it's turning your back on the Dem platform vs. Biden as an individual candidate". Just too scared to take a chance knowing that if they fuck it up again like they fucked up in 2016 by hitching their wagon to Clinton, it puts the incompetent lunatic Trump back in the White House and the country will get rolled back another 2 decades on top of the 2 he already set us back.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:41 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:29 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:43 am

I think the issue is that everyone on the left seems more or less fine lining up behind Biden. I am not sure there is presently another candidate who can hold the two ends of the party together to the degree needed to weather what’s left of the MAGA storm.

I personally would love to see someone else running instead.

But, if that someone else is too lefty, you’ll lose support from the middle. And if that person is too middle, you run the risk of a third party running from the left.

I just think the issue is that Biden was picked in 2020 because he was seen as the safest bet to defeat Trump and now the major party people don't want it to reflect poorly on the Dem party if they go a different route. "If you turn your back on Biden then it's turning your back on the Dem platform vs. Biden as an individual candidate". Just too scared to take a chance knowing that if they fuck it up again like they fucked up in 2016 by hitching their wagon to Clinton, it puts the incompetent lunatic Trump back in the White House and the country will get rolled back another 2 decades on top of the 2 he already set us back.

YMMV - and there’s zero way to know this for sure. I, personally, believe that if Biden felt someone else had an even better shot in 2024 than he does, then he’d cede the stage.

zsn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:39 am What’s lost in all of this is that we’re here because one side has no interest or intent whatsoever in doing anything positive for the people. And, the Family Values (TM) Party has hitched its future to a convicted/confessed sexual assailant and the Law and Order (TM) Wing to a traitor and insurrectionist.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:13 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:39 am What’s lost in all of this is that we’re here because one side has no interest or intent whatsoever in doing anything positive for the people. And, the Family Values (TM) Party has hitched its future to a convicted/confessed sexual assailant and the Law and Order (TM) Wing to a traitor and insurrectionist.

I do not believe that there are no GOP politicians who have no interest in doing anything positive for people. I didn't agree with many of the policies of people like Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney but I did believe they were trying to serve their constituents the way they felt they wanted them to. They have just been hamstrung by the fact that you had to ride with Trump, oppose all Dem policies and never reach across the aisle to compromise or be executed at the voting booth. The GOP voters have supported this, thanks mostly to being talked into it by Trump's brainwashing machine, and the GOP platform has taken shape behind it.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:20 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:13 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:39 am What’s lost in all of this is that we’re here because one side has no interest or intent whatsoever in doing anything positive for the people. And, the Family Values (TM) Party has hitched its future to a convicted/confessed sexual assailant and the Law and Order (TM) Wing to a traitor and insurrectionist.

I do not believe that there are no GOP politicians who have no interest in doing anything positive for people. I didn't agree with many of the policies of people like Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney but I did believe they were trying to serve their constituents the way they felt they wanted them to. They have just been hamstrung by the fact that you had to ride with Trump, oppose all Dem policies and never reach across the aisle to compromise or be executed at the voting booth. The GOP voters have supported this, thanks mostly to being talked into it by Trump's brainwashing machine, and the GOP platform has taken shape behind it.

Neither Cheney nor Romney are Republicans; hence, their lack of popularity within the party.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:20 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:13 pm The GOP voters have supported this, thanks mostly to being talked into it by Trump's brainwashing machine, and the GOP platform has taken shape behind it.

Neither Cheney nor Romney are Republicans; hence, their lack of popularity within the party.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:29 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:43 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:15 pm Rather than waiting for an accident to happen (and/or the risk of Biden getting beat a year from now), why not just have Uncle Joe take a dignified, “I’d like to spend more time with my family” sort of retirement farewell, which no one would begrudge?

I really hope dems don’t sit idly waiting for an accident

I think the issue is that everyone on the left seems more or less fine lining up behind Biden. I am not sure there is presently another candidate who can hold the two ends of the party together to the degree needed to weather what’s left of the MAGA storm.

I personally would love to see someone else running instead.

But, if that someone else is too lefty, you’ll lose support from the middle. And if that person is too middle, you run the risk of a third party running from the left.

I just think the issue is that Biden was picked in 2020 because he was seen as the safest bet to defeat Trump and now the major party people don't want it to reflect poorly on the Dem party if they go a different route.

Sparko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:00 pm Polling is a mess. The people answering the call or email are mostly named Cletus. Last night, democrats pretty much ran the table.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:45 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:20 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:13 pm

I do not believe that there are no GOP politicians who have no interest in doing anything positive for people. I didn't agree with many of the policies of people like Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney but I did believe they were trying to serve their constituents the way they felt they wanted them to. They have just been hamstrung by the fact that you had to ride with Trump, oppose all Dem policies and never reach across the aisle to compromise or be executed at the voting booth. The GOP voters have supported this, thanks mostly to being talked into it by Trump's brainwashing machine, and the GOP platform has taken shape behind it.

Neither Cheney nor Romney are Republicans; hence, their lack of popularity within the party.

Thank you for proving my point. They were blackballed from the entire party because they called out Trump for being the scumbag criminal that he clearly is. Principles are no longer welcome in today's GOP.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:11 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:41 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:29 am
I just think the issue is that Biden was picked in 2020 because he was seen as the safest bet to defeat Trump and now the major party people don't want it to reflect poorly on the Dem party if they go a different route. "If you turn your back on Biden then it's turning your back on the Dem platform vs. Biden as an individual candidate". Just too scared to take a chance knowing that if they fuck it up again like they fucked up in 2016 by hitching their wagon to Clinton, it puts the incompetent lunatic Trump back in the White House and the country will get rolled back another 2 decades on top of the 2 he already set us back.

YMMV - and there’s zero way to know this for sure. I, personally, believe that if Biden felt someone else had an even better shot in 2024 than he does, then he’d cede the stage.

But what would lead him to believe that, polls of people who have never been presented any other, let alone better alternatives? Kennedy has been our only other option and he's worse by far.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:01 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:11 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:41 am

YMMV - and there’s zero way to know this for sure. I, personally, believe that if Biden felt someone else had an even better shot in 2024 than he does, then he’d cede the stage.

But what would lead him to believe that, polls of people who have never been presented any other, let alone better alternatives? Kennedy has been our only other option and he's worse by far.

I don't think he'd take this from polling. It would come from the party (or even Biden) identifying alternative candidates.

But again, there's the rub. It's not even that straightforward to identify the archetype of a plausible replacement.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:04 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:01 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:11 pm

But what would lead him to believe that, polls of people who have never been presented any other, let alone better alternatives? Kennedy has been our only other option and he's worse by far.

I don't think he'd take this from polling. It would come from the party (or even Biden) identifying alternative candidates.

But again, there's the rub. It's not even that straightforward to identify the archetype of a plausible replacement.

The people that matter are too scared to pull the plug at this point. I would be stunned if we had a different Dem nominee besides Biden absent a major change in Biden's health and wellness between now and the primaries that start in a few months.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:20 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:04 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:01 pm

I don't think he'd take this from polling. It would come from the party (or even Biden) identifying alternative candidates.

But again, there's the rub. It's not even that straightforward to identify the archetype of a plausible replacement.

The people that matter are too scared to pull the plug at this point. I would be stunned if we had a different Dem nominee besides Biden absent a major change in Biden's health and wellness between now and the primaries that start in a few months.

Maybe. Or maybe he/the party are waiting for the right inflection point - which might possibly have been this morning.

It's very complicated, because I think you'd have to replace the whole ticket. And that involves a whole other host of sensitive issues.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:43 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:00 pm Polling is a mess. The people answering the call or email are mostly named Cletus. Last night, democrats pretty much ran the table.

I believe these two things to be true at the same time: (1) last night's results are far more indicative of the national mood than the recent NYT polling, and (2) the NYT polling does illuminate the relative softness of support for Biden as compared with support for the D platform.