2024

[twocoach]

Meh. I'd be curious about the definition of "far right". Is it really unreasonable not to want grade school kids to be taught about intersectionality, or even sexuality in general, without their parents' permission? I don't have a problem with schools wanting to address the issues, but I want the opportunity to opt my kid out if I so choose. I was teaching a grad seminar last week with a group of student interns in the school systems, and I was shocked at how much the schools hide from parents about the discussions counselors and teachers have with students about their sexuality. If my kid thinks he or she might be trans, I damn well better know about it, especially if some counselor I don't even know is calling them by a name different than the one I gave them and talking to them about transitioning their sex. That's not "far right" in my book, it's just being an informed parent.

Kids are their own living entity and should not be required to tell their parents everything. If they want you to know about something, they will tell you. It is not your right to know everything about them. It is not in the Constitution as some unassailable right as a US citizen. They are not your property and you do not have domain over their every thought.

Children need to have an outlet to discuss things outside of their relationship with their parents. Parents have total control over every facet of their existence and happiness. The basics of their lives are provided by their parents; food, water, shelter, their schooling, their activities, their access to friends, their hobbies, their interests. EVERYTHING. So I do not blame a child for not wanting to tell a parent something that they fear might not be received well as they may feel that it puts everything in their lives at risk. They have to have some other outlet for their issues where they feel they can speak freely about things without putting everything they hold dear at risk.

Confidentiality laws in Kansas state that a minor does not have a legal right to confidentiality from a legal guardian prior to age 16. They are similar in other states. I didn’t make the law.

There are limits to your confidentiality, too, via Duty to Warn laws. Is that a violation of your Constitutional rights?

Yeah, you're going to need to provide a specific link or copy/paste of that specific law so that I can understand the full context of it. Keep in mind that having a conversation with a school counselor is not the same as receiving medical care.

[japhy]

If my kid thinks he or she might be trans, I damn well better know about it, especially if some counselor I don't even know is calling them by a name different than the one I gave them and talking to them about transitioning their sex. That's not "far right" in my book, it's just being an informed parent.

If you were an "informed parent" you would know about your kid's orientation questions before the school counselor.

No.

Yes

[JKLivin]

Kids are their own living entity and should not be required to tell their parents everything. If they want you to know about something, they will tell you. It is not your right to know everything about them. It is not in the Constitution as some unassailable right as a US citizen. They are not your property and you do not have domain over their every thought.

Children need to have an outlet to discuss things outside of their relationship with their parents. Parents have total control over every facet of their existence and happiness. The basics of their lives are provided by their parents; food, water, shelter, their schooling, their activities, their access to friends, their hobbies, their interests. EVERYTHING. So I do not blame a child for not wanting to tell a parent something that they fear might not be received well as they may feel that it puts everything in their lives at risk. They have to have some other outlet for their issues where they feel they can speak freely about things without putting everything they hold dear at risk.

Confidentiality laws in Kansas state that a minor does not have a legal right to confidentiality from a legal guardian prior to age 16. They are similar in other states. I didn’t make the law.

There are limits to your confidentiality, too, via Duty to Warn laws. Is that a violation of your Constitutional rights?

Yeah, you're going to need to provide a specific link or copy/paste of that specific law so that I can understand the full context of it. Keep in mind that having a conversation with a school counselor is not the same as receiving medical care.

http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2016/b2 ... 58_0010_k/

“65-5810. Confidential communications; exceptions. (a) The confidential relations and communications between a licensed professional counselor and such counselor's client are placed on the same basis as provided by law for those between an attorney and an attorney's client.
(b) The confidential relations and communications between a licensed clinical professional counselor and such counselor's client are placed on the same basis as provided by law for those between an attorney and an attorney's client.
(c) Nothing in this section or in this act shall be construed to prohibit any licensed professional counselor or licensed clinical professional counselor from testifying in court hearings concerning matters of adult abuse, adoption, child abuse, child neglect, or other matters pertaining to the welfare of children or from seeking collaboration or consultation with professional colleagues or administrative superiors, or both, on behalf of the client. There is no privilege under this section for information which is required to be reported to a public official.”

I would argue that a boy taking about wanting to have his penis and testicles removed is a matter of child welfare just the same as a child making suicidal statements or talking about shooting up the school.

[JKLivin]

If you were an "informed parent" you would know about your kid's orientation questions before the school counselor.

No.

Yes

No. We can do this ad infinitum.

After 20 plus years of working with kids and families, I can tell you definitively that not all kids communicate well with their parents, even really good parents.

[japhy]

In my 28 years of experience as a dad I have observed some things that seem to be common in most parent-child relationships. Kids are very rapt observers of their parent’s behavior. They know their parent’s biases, their disdains, their judgement or acceptance of others pretty well. They know what we say about other people when they aren’t there. They see how we treat other people. They see us be kind or empathetic, and cruel or mean. They often pick up and mimic these behaviors and values.

If a child feels they can’t tell their parents something that is core to who they are, they likely have a reason. They know something about their parent that makes them think they can’t trust their parent to accept that part of them that they feel is core to their being. The child knows better than anyone else how their parent is likely to react and behave. If the only adult they can talk to is someone other than a parent, that is a sad state, but it seems better than having no one to talk to.

Are they still “good” parents? Maybe, but they have still failed their child.

“LGBTQ youth are 4X as likely to attempt suicide as their peers.”

[JKLivin]

In my 28 years of experience as a dad I have observed some things that seem to be common in most parent-child relationships. Kids are very rapt observers of their parent’s behavior. They know their parent’s biases, their disdains, their judgement or acceptance of others pretty well. They know what we say about other people when they aren’t there. They see how we treat other people. They see us be kind or empathetic, and cruel or mean. They often pick up and mimic these behaviors and values.

If a child feels they can’t tell their parents something that is core to who they are, they likely have a reason. They know something about their parent that makes them think they can’t trust their parent to accept that part of them that they feel is core to their being. The child knows better than anyone else how their parent is likely to react and behave. If the only adult they can talk to is someone other than a parent, that is a sad state, but it seems better than having no one to talk to.

Are they still “good” parents? Maybe, but they have still failed their child.

“LGBTQ youth are 4X as likely to attempt suicide as their peers.”

On a long enough timeline we all fail our children - multiple times. Withholding information from parents only exacerbates that reality.

Case in point - my 20 year-old son came out to my wife and me when he was 18. He had been struggling with it and had been taking to the school counselor about it for two years.

Part of the school counselor’s “wisdom” was not to tell me that his step dad was calling him “faggot-ass” and “fairy boy” and shoving and slapping him around because he knew I would beat the hell out of the step dad and his mom would side with him.

Had I known, I would have moved him in with me immediately and would have told him the same thing at 16 that I told him at 18: “You’re not telling me anything I haven’t already known for years. I love you just the way you are, and I always will. I’m always on your side.”

[KUTradition]

In my 28 years of experience as a dad I have observed some things that seem to be common in most parent-child relationships. Kids are very rapt observers of their parent’s behavior. They know their parent’s biases, their disdains, their judgement or acceptance of others pretty well. They know what we say about other people when they aren’t there. They see how we treat other people. They see us be kind or empathetic, and cruel or mean. They often pick up and mimic these behaviors and values.

If a child feels they can’t tell their parents something that is core to who they are, they likely have a reason. They know something about their parent that makes them think they can’t trust their parent to accept that part of them that they feel is core to their being. The child knows better than anyone else how their parent is likely to react and behave. If the only adult they can talk to is someone other than a parent, that is a sad state, but it seems better than having no one to talk to.

Are they still “good” parents? Maybe, but they have still failed their child.

“LGBTQ youth are 4X as likely to attempt suicide as their peers.”

^^^^^^^^^
x a billion

[japhy]

On a long enough timeline we all fail our children - multiple times. Withholding information from parents only exacerbates that reality.

Case in point - my 20 year-old son came out to my wife and me when he was 18. He had been struggling with it and had been taking to the school counselor about it for two years.

Part of the school counselor’s “wisdom” was not to tell me that his step dad was calling him “faggot-ass” and “fairy boy” and shoving and slapping him around because he knew I would beat the hell out of the step dad and his mom would side with him.

Had I known, I would have moved him in with me immediately and would have told him the same thing at 16 that I told him at 18: “You’re not telling me anything I haven’t already known for years. I love you just the way you are, and I always will. I’m always on your side.”

This is a great father/son story. You've gotta be proud of a 16 year old who puts protecting the ones he loves before himself. That is big ass thing for a 16 year old to decide. It sounds like in the end he decided having his father in jail for assault and battery was not going to make him feel better about his situation is spite of the momentary gratification the two of you would feel about the beatdown of the bully. That is a lot of maturity. This is a good parenting success!

My daughter never really came out. She called one day and invited me to her concert at the Lied Center. She had a solo in the symphony and she wanted me to hear it. And she wanted me to meet her girlfriend. As soon as I got off the phone, I called her older sister. Her big sister had just heard about the gf as well. The two of them speak daily and share most everything. The youngest just works most things out by herself on her own timeline and in her mind and then, just lets the world know what she has decided. When she was in middle school she went to a therapist who is now a friend of mine. We wanted her to have someone to talk to during our divorce, in case there was something she needed to bounce off someone who wasn’t her parent. Later the therapist told me R was the most mature 13 year old she had ever met. She felt like she wasn’t really providing counseling, she was sitting and listening to R do self-evaluation and self-counseling on her course forward.

R had been around my LGBTQ friends all through her childhood. Friends came for dinner parties and some were coupled off with opposite sex partners and some same sex and there was the "guy" who dressed feminine whose name changed from Jim to Jamie. We never really talked about it, this was just the way things are. Looking back she probably didn’t know there was a stigma attached until she got into high school.

So while it left the rest of us scratching our heads, in R’s mind there was no need to “come out”. It was just as simple and natural as “this is who I love now, I want the other people I love to meet them.” I have to say that in retrospect I am even prouder of her for that than if she had decided to formally “come out” to us.

I take no major credit or consider this proof of my advanced fathering skills. In large part this is just who she is, as can be attested to by her astonished therapist. If anything, I credit my LGBTQ friends who have always shown her how to live life as you see fit and the hell with what anyone else thinks. None of my LGBTQ friends have kids, in a lot of respects they have treated my daughters like their kids when they spend time with them. It has been a fulfilling relationship for both parties.

Drag queen story time.

Yes

[MICHHAWK]

the bored is focusing in on fringe issues that will not move the needle much in 24. but that is what the left does.

[Overlander]

Just a reminder folks, Psych is a badass.

Although, his raging masculinity jibes with Japhy’s assertion that children are products of their environment and mimic behaved actions.

His son is indeed brave to come out.

[japhy]

I think psych is a good parent. The urge to kick the shit out of someone who demeans and disrespects someone you love is understandable. I would, and have, felt the same. In the end he didn't; and his son's willingness to put his father's safety before his own is a bright light in an otherwise dark tale.

Who knows, more stories like this might make it less likely for us to dehumanize each other.

But back to the subject at hand for mich sake; Heil Trump! Heil Trump! Heil Trump 2024!

[JKLivin]

On a long enough timeline we all fail our children - multiple times. Withholding information from parents only exacerbates that reality.

Case in point - my 20 year-old son came out to my wife and me when he was 18. He had been struggling with it and had been taking to the school counselor about it for two years.

Part of the school counselor’s “wisdom” was not to tell me that his step dad was calling him “faggot-ass” and “fairy boy” and shoving and slapping him around because he knew I would beat the hell out of the step dad and his mom would side with him.

Had I known, I would have moved him in with me immediately and would have told him the same thing at 16 that I told him at 18: “You’re not telling me anything I haven’t already known for years. I love you just the way you are, and I always will. I’m always on your side.”

This is a great father/son story. You've gotta be proud of a 16 year old who puts protecting the ones he loves before himself. That is big ass thing for a 16 year old to decide. It sounds like in the end he decided having his father in jail for assault and battery was not going to make him feel better about his situation is spite of the momentary gratification the two of you would feel about the beatdown of the bully. That is a lot of maturity. This is a good parenting success!

My daughter never really came out. She called one day and invited me to her concert at the Lied Center. She had a solo in the symphony and she wanted me to hear it. And she wanted me to meet her girlfriend. As soon as I got off the phone, I called her older sister. Her big sister had just heard about the gf as well. The two of them speak daily and share most everything. The youngest just works most things out by herself on her own timeline and in her mind and then, just lets the world know what she has decided. When she was in middle school she went to a therapist who is now a friend of mine. We wanted her to have someone to talk to during our divorce, in case there was something she needed to bounce off someone who wasn’t her parent. Later the therapist told me R was the most mature 13 year old she had ever met. She felt like she wasn’t really providing counseling, she was sitting and listening to R do self-evaluation and self-counseling on her course forward.

R had been around my LGBTQ friends all through her childhood. Friends came for dinner parties and some were coupled off with opposite sex partners and some same sex and there was the "guy" who dressed feminine whose name changed from Jim to Jamie. We never really talked about it, this was just the way things are. Looking back she probably didn’t know there was a stigma attached until she got into high school.

So while it left the rest of us scratching our heads, in R’s mind there was no need to “come out”. It was just as simple and natural as “this is who I love now, I want the other people I love to meet them.” I have to say that in retrospect I am even prouder of her for that than if she had decided to formally “come out” to us.

I take no major credit or consider this proof of my advanced fathering skills. In large part this is just who she is, as can be attested to by her astonished therapist. If anything, I credit my LGBTQ friends who have always shown her how to live life as you see fit and the hell with what anyone else thinks. None of my LGBTQ friends have kids, in a lot of respects they have treated my daughters like their kids when they spend time with them. It has been a fulfilling relationship for both parties.

Drag queen story time.

Yes

Sounds like you and I have walked a lot of the same roads, and I commend you for the parenting job you did with your daughter as well.

I doubt I would have gone to jail. The ex's now-ex (she's a real winner), had done time in prison in Kansas - once at Leavenworth and once at Hutch - and was always looking for opportunities to feel like he was intimidating others as a way of compensating for his lack of success in life and general intelligence. Picture Overlander with false teeth in the front and a lot of crappy prison ink.

Anyway, he was always bowing up to me, and I figured out pretty quick that, if the right psychological pressure were applied, he would attack me, and I could just say I was defending myself. As it was, I always just chuckled at him and held eye contact until he turned around and walked off muttering under his breath. Had I known how he was treating my son, I would have confronted him, he would have ended up swinging on me, and justice would have been done.

I don't see the LGBTQIA+ community as a threat or some sort of cultural bugaboo to be feared or loathed. I DO think that parents need to know what their kids are being exposed to and to have a voice in what that looks like. It's nothing more insidious than that.

[Overlander]

On a long enough timeline we all fail our children - multiple times. Withholding information from parents only exacerbates that reality.

Case in point - my 20 year-old son came out to my wife and me when he was 18. He had been struggling with it and had been taking to the school counselor about it for two years.

Part of the school counselor’s “wisdom” was not to tell me that his step dad was calling him “faggot-ass” and “fairy boy” and shoving and slapping him around because he knew I would beat the hell out of the step dad and his mom would side with him.

Had I known, I would have moved him in with me immediately and would have told him the same thing at 16 that I told him at 18: “You’re not telling me anything I haven’t already known for years. I love you just the way you are, and I always will. I’m always on your side.”

This is a great father/son story. You've gotta be proud of a 16 year old who puts protecting the ones he loves before himself. That is big ass thing for a 16 year old to decide. It sounds like in the end he decided having his father in jail for assault and battery was not going to make him feel better about his situation is spite of the momentary gratification the two of you would feel about the beatdown of the bully. That is a lot of maturity. This is a good parenting success!

My daughter never really came out. She called one day and invited me to her concert at the Lied Center. She had a solo in the symphony and she wanted me to hear it. And she wanted me to meet her girlfriend. As soon as I got off the phone, I called her older sister. Her big sister had just heard about the gf as well. The two of them speak daily and share most everything. The youngest just works most things out by herself on her own timeline and in her mind and then, just lets the world know what she has decided. When she was in middle school she went to a therapist who is now a friend of mine. We wanted her to have someone to talk to during our divorce, in case there was something she needed to bounce off someone who wasn’t her parent. Later the therapist told me R was the most mature 13 year old she had ever met. She felt like she wasn’t really providing counseling, she was sitting and listening to R do self-evaluation and self-counseling on her course forward.

R had been around my LGBTQ friends all through her childhood. Friends came for dinner parties and some were coupled off with opposite sex partners and some same sex and there was the "guy" who dressed feminine whose name changed from Jim to Jamie. We never really talked about it, this was just the way things are. Looking back she probably didn’t know there was a stigma attached until she got into high school.

So while it left the rest of us scratching our heads, in R’s mind there was no need to “come out”. It was just as simple and natural as “this is who I love now, I want the other people I love to meet them.” I have to say that in retrospect I am even prouder of her for that than if she had decided to formally “come out” to us.

I take no major credit or consider this proof of my advanced fathering skills. In large part this is just who she is, as can be attested to by her astonished therapist. If anything, I credit my LGBTQ friends who have always shown her how to live life as you see fit and the hell with what anyone else thinks. None of my LGBTQ friends have kids, in a lot of respects they have treated my daughters like their kids when they spend time with them. It has been a fulfilling relationship for both parties.

Drag queen story time.

Yes

and was always looking for opportunities to feel like he was intimidating others as a way of compensating for his lack of success in life and general intelligence. Picture Overlander with false teeth in the front and a lot of crappy prison ink.

More free psychoanalysis over the internet?

You clearly don’t know me.

[zsn]

I don't see the LGBTQIA+ community as a threat or some sort of cultural bugaboo to be feared or loathed. I DO think that parents need to know what their kids are being exposed to and to have a voice in what that looks like. It's nothing more insidious than that.

Then how do you justify (or express your preference for) voting for people who do the opposite of what you said, forcefully (both you and them)?

Right now, the entire GOP platform (to the extent that there is one) is based on undermining LGBT+ and ethnic minorities.

[JKLivin]

I don't see the LGBTQIA+ community as a threat or some sort of cultural bugaboo to be feared or loathed. I DO think that parents need to know what their kids are being exposed to and to have a voice in what that looks like. It's nothing more insidious than that.

Then how do you justify (or express your preference for) voting for people who do the opposite of what you said, forcefully (both you and them)?

Right now, the entire GOP platform (to the extent that there is one) is based on undermining LGBT+ and ethnic minorities.

I think I've been pretty clear and consistent in that my priorities are 1.) The economy 2.) The economy 3.) The economy and 4.) All other issues.

[JKLivin]

Overlander, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.

[Sparko]

I don't see the LGBTQIA+ community as a threat or some sort of cultural bugaboo to be feared or loathed. I DO think that parents need to know what their kids are being exposed to and to have a voice in what that looks like. It's nothing more insidious than that.

Then how do you justify (or express your preference for) voting for people who do the opposite of what you said, forcefully (both you and them)?

Right now, the entire GOP platform (to the extent that there is one) is based on undermining LGBT+ and ethnic minorities.

And Social Security and Medicare. Labor rights. Women's bodily autonomy. Books. Education. Foreign policy.

They hate a lot.

[zsn]

I don't see the LGBTQIA+ community as a threat or some sort of cultural bugaboo to be feared or loathed. I DO think that parents need to know what their kids are being exposed to and to have a voice in what that looks like. It's nothing more insidious than that.

Then how do you justify (or express your preference for) voting for people who do the opposite of what you said, forcefully (both you and them)?

Right now, the entire GOP platform (to the extent that there is one) is based on undermining LGBT+ and ethnic minorities.

I think I've been pretty clear and consistent in that my priorities are 1.) The economy 2.) The economy 3.) The economy and 4.) All other issues.

By every objective economic measure (GDP growth, deficits, national debt, for instance) every GOP government has done worse than when a Democratic administration has been in charge. What have the Republicans done in the last 40 years to help the economy or help the people? Other than four government shutdowns.

[MICHHAWK]

uncles economy is nailing it.






uncle will not be campaigning on his economy. he will campaign on a bunch of fringe issues that mostly no one cares about.

[JKLivin]

Then how do you justify (or express your preference for) voting for people who do the opposite of what you said, forcefully (both you and them)?

Right now, the entire GOP platform (to the extent that there is one) is based on undermining LGBT+ and ethnic minorities.

I think I've been pretty clear and consistent in that my priorities are 1.) The economy 2.) The economy 3.) The economy and 4.) All other issues.

By every objective economic measure (GDP growth, deficits, national debt, for instance) every GOP government has done worse than when a Democratic administration has been in charge. What have the Republicans done in the last 40 years to help the economy or help the people? Other than four government shutdowns.

The Trump economy was doing great until the Plandemic and the subsequent fake election of 2020. Then, Brandon took over, and we have our current mess.