Another mass shooting

[Overlander]

If you haven’t, I strongly suggest watching the Gus Van Zant movie “Elephant”.

An amazing and stomach turning film walking through several perspectives of living through a school shooting event.

From the school kids, teachers and the peeps. It isn’t filmed like a normal movie, no music, no plot, no build up.

A life changer, if you pay attention

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

1) He isn't a kid. This isn't the first time this has happened.

2) He isn't a kid, so MICH comment doesn't apply to this situation.

3) A car isn't a gun. But sure, if a 12 year old takes their parents car and intentionally kills someone then their parents should have some responsibility....A wife can own her own car. If your wife gets drunk, steals your gun, and kills people then yes the husband should he held responsible in some way. Don't own a gun if the risk is something you're not willing to take. Or lock the gun up. There are numerous affordable gun safes that require a fingerprint or a code to open. A responsible gun owner has their guns locked away so that only they can access them.

To me, he WAS (past tense - he's dead) a "kid". A "kid" by definition is a young person.
God forbid your 18 year old kid drives drunk one day and kills someone while driving his/her car that you bought for him/her. You think you and your wife should go to jail? I'm not saying you and your wife shouldn't bear some responsibility but did you knowingly and willingly contribute to the crime that your child committed?

If you can't keep the gun you own out of the hands of others who are going to commit crimes you are knowingly and willingly assisting in a crime in my opinion.

Cars are not guns. Dumb analogy (respectfully) imo.

A) "The gun you own"? The 18 year old owned his own guns. Many if not most of the "kids" who are doing the "mass shootings" are using their own guns.
Yes, I agree that if someone uses someone else's gun/s then that other person has "aided" and should face/bear some repercussions.

B) The analogy wasn't meant to compare cars and guns. The analogy was meant to compare responsibility for causing someone else's death - and how far do we take it.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Very sobering perspective when you see this massive list.

First one - I knew who the shooter was and I witnessed the police response.
https://abc7chicago.com/laurie-dann-hub ... n/3483715/

Hubbard Woods Elementary School.
Thurston High School.
Columbine High School.
Heritage High School.
Deming Middle School.
Fort Gibson Middle School.
Buell Elementary School.
Lake Worth Middle School.
University of Arkansas.
Junipero Serra High School.
Santana High School.
Bishop Neumann High School.
Pacific Lutheran University.
Granite Hills High School.
Lew Wallace High School.
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School.
Appalachian School of Law.
Washington High School.
Conception Abbey.
Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
University of Arizona.
Lincoln High School.
John McDonogh High School.
Red Lion Area Junior High School.
Case Western Reserve University.
Rocori High School.
Ballou High School.
Randallstown High School.
Bowen High School.
Red Lake Senior High School.
Harlan Community Academy High School.
Campbell County High School.
Milwee Middle School.
Roseburg High School.
Pine Middle School.
Essex Elementary School.
Duquesne University.
Platte Canyon High School.
Weston High School.
West Nickel Mines School.
Joplin Memorial Middle School.
Henry Foss High School.
Compton Centennial High School.
Virginia Tech.
Success Tech Academy.
Miami Carol City Senior High School.
Hamilton High School.
Louisiana Technical College.
Mitchell High School.
E.O. Green Junior High School.
Northern Illinois University.
Lakota Middle School.
Knoxville Central High School.
Willoughby South High School.
Henry Ford High School.
University of Central Arkansas.
Dillard High School.
Dunbar High School.
Hampton University.
Harvard College.
Larose-Cut Off Middle School.
International Studies Academy.
Skyline College.
Discovery Middle School.
University of Alabama.
DeKalb School.
Deer Creek Middle School.
Ohio State University.
Mumford High School.
University of Texas.
Kelly Elementary School.
Marinette High School.
Aurora Central High School.
Millard South High School.
Martinsville West Middle School.
Worthing High School.
Millard South High School.
Highlands Intermediate School.
Cape Fear High School.
Chardon High School.
Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
Oikos University.
Hamilton High School.
Perry Hall School.
Normal Community High School.
University of South Alabama.
Banner Academy South.
University of Southern California.
Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School.
Taft Union High School.
Osborn High School.
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts.
Hazard Community and Technical College.
Chicago State University.
Lone Star College-North.
Cesar Chavez High School.
Price Middle School.
University of Central Florida.
New River Community College.
Grambling State University.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School.
Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy.
North Panola High School.
Carver High School.
Agape Christian Academy.
Sparks Middle School.
North Carolina A&T State University.
Stephenson High School.
Brashear High School.
West Orange High School.
Arapahoe High School.
Edison High School.
Liberty Technology Magnet High School.
Hillhouse High School.
Berrendo Middle School.
Purdue University.
South Carolina State University.
Los Angeles Valley College.
Charles F. Brush High School.
University of Southern California.
Georgia Regents University.
Academy of Knowledge Preschool.
Benjamin Banneker High School.
D. H. Conley High School.
East English Village Preparatory Academy.
Paine College.
Georgia Gwinnett College.
John F. Kennedy High School.
Seattle Pacific University.
Reynolds High School.
Indiana State University.
Albemarle High School.
Fern Creek Traditional High School.
Langston Hughes High School.
Marysville Pilchuck High School.
Florida State University.
Miami Carol City High School.
Rogers State University.
Rosemary Anderson High School.
Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Frederick High School.
Tenaya Middle School.
Bethune-Cookman University.
Pershing Elementary School.
Wayne Community College.
J.B. Martin Middle School.
Southwestern Classical Academy.
Savannah State University.
Harrisburg High School.
Umpqua Community College.
Northern Arizona University.
Texas Southern University.
Tennessee State University.
Winston-Salem State University.
Mojave High School.
Lawrence Central High School.
Franklin High School.
Muskegon Heights High School.
Independence High School.
Madison High School.
Antigo High School.
University of California-Los Angeles.
Jeremiah Burke High School.
Alpine High School.
Townville Elementary School.
Vigor High School.
Linden McKinley STEM Academy.
June Jordan High School for Equity.
Union Middle School.
Mueller Park Junior High School.
West Liberty-Salem High School.
University of Washington.
King City High School.
North Park Elementary School.
North Lake College.
Freeman High School.
Mattoon High School.
Rancho Tehama Elementary School.
Aztec High School.
Wake Forest University.
Italy High School.
NET Charter High School.
Marshall County High School.
Sal Castro Middle School.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E. Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F. Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Robb Elementary School

[DrPepper]

I feel sorry for the shooter. Of course I feel sorry for the victims and that whole town (which are trauma victims). But reading about his miserable life is sad. He was 18 by mere days. Should have still been in high school. Had been bullied forever. His mother was a drug user and absent lately. Not all kids in his predictament fall like he did, but he did.
What would have been his high school senior class, walked thru the halls of that elementary school the day before the massacre, wearing their graduation regalia, getting the smiles and cheers from the children.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... ng-gunman/

[Deleted User 863]

Americans love to be bullies.

[twocoach]

I bet if we imposed large taxes on firearm sales and ammo sales that it would fund a decent portion of that. As well as not over policing certain areas. If we are going to over fund the police let's do it for a good cause.

Let's do the math on it instead of speculating.
500,000 school security guards @ $50,000 salary per year = Annual salary of $25 billion
I assume that we'd also have to cover the cost of arming them and continually training them.

There is no chance that even a 50% tax on US gun and ammo sales would be "a decent portion" of that cost and there is a 0% chance you could pass a tax even remotely close to that number.

Glad you've got it all figured out.

My guess is a large portion of schools already have a police officer or security guard. So you don't need 500,000 MORE of them. We also have plenty of other officers that can be reallocated.

And we have plenty of money to reallocate from other areas of government spending that aren't as nearly as important as protecting schools.

You're doing exactly what you bitch about the "other side" doing. Just saying "nope, won't work". Rinse. Repeat.

There is no magic law we can pass to make guns not exist. Making that your only priority is foolish. Even if guns stopped being sold tomorrow that isn't THE fix.

It's going to take multiple laws, multiple strategies, and a whole lot less worrying about what it costs to protect school children.

My kids school already has some of the measures being suggested by various people.

It's not just saying "nope, won't work". It's trying to use your brain to analyze the flippant assumptions made by others to see if they are legitimate answers. It's trying to put some thought into the realities and hurdles faced by many of the "solutions" that are being thrown out there.

"My guess is a large portion of schools already have a police officer or security guard. " - assumption with zero attempt to verify

"And we have plenty of money to reallocate from other areas of government spending that aren't as nearly as important as protecting schools. " - assumption with zero attempt to verify

"You're doing exactly what you bitch about the "other side" doing. Just saying "nope, won't work". Rinse. Repeat. " - just blatantly wrong so this can fit in your "both sides do it" shtick you lean on to fill space.

"There is no magic law we can pass to make guns not exist. Making that your only priority is foolish. Even if guns stopped being sold tomorrow that isn't THE fix. " I have never stated it is the only fix, another assumption with nothing to support it. You're just arguing to argue at this point.

"It's going to take multiple laws, multiple strategies, and a whole lot less worrying about what it costs to protect school children. " None of the laws involving guns have a chance to pass if Republicans are involved in the voting. And all of the changes surrounding access points into a school are easily maneuvered around. Stand outside virtually any door at any school for more than 15 minutes or so and that door will open and no one coming out of it is going to try to prevent a guy with a gun from entering.

[Deleted User 863]

Let's do the math on it instead of speculating.
500,000 school security guards @ $50,000 salary per year = Annual salary of $25 billion
I assume that we'd also have to cover the cost of arming them and continually training them.

There is no chance that even a 50% tax on US gun and ammo sales would be "a decent portion" of that cost and there is a 0% chance you could pass a tax even remotely close to that number.

Glad you've got it all figured out.

My guess is a large portion of schools already have a police officer or security guard. So you don't need 500,000 MORE of them. We also have plenty of other officers that can be reallocated.

And we have plenty of money to reallocate from other areas of government spending that aren't as nearly as important as protecting schools.

You're doing exactly what you bitch about the "other side" doing. Just saying "nope, won't work". Rinse. Repeat.

There is no magic law we can pass to make guns not exist. Making that your only priority is foolish. Even if guns stopped being sold tomorrow that isn't THE fix.

It's going to take multiple laws, multiple strategies, and a whole lot less worrying about what it costs to protect school children.

My kids school already has some of the measures being suggested by various people.

It's not just saying "nope, won't work". It's trying to use your brain to analyze the flippant assumptions made by others to see if they are legitimate answers. It's trying to put some thought into the realities and hurdles faced by many of the "solutions" that are being thrown out there.

"My guess is a large portion of schools already have a police officer or security guard. " - assumption with zero attempt to verify

"And we have plenty of money to reallocate from other areas of government spending that aren't as nearly as important as protecting schools. " - assumption with zero attempt to verify

"You're doing exactly what you bitch about the "other side" doing. Just saying "nope, won't work". Rinse. Repeat. " - just blatantly wrong so this can fit in your "both sides do it" shtick you lean on to fill space.

"There is no magic law we can pass to make guns not exist. Making that your only priority is foolish. Even if guns stopped being sold tomorrow that isn't THE fix. " I have never stated it is the only fix, another assumption with nothing to support it. You're just arguing to argue at this point.

"It's going to take multiple laws, multiple strategies, and a whole lot less worrying about what it costs to protect school children. " None of the laws involving guns have a chance to pass if Republicans are involved in the voting. And all of the changes surrounding access points into a school are easily maneuvered around. Stand outside virtually any door at any school for more than 15 minutes or so and that door will open and no one coming out of it is going to try to prevent a guy with a gun from entering.

On.

And on.


And on.


(Plano voice)



And to quote you....lots of assumptions in your own post with zero attempt (or ability) to verify.

For someone who doesn't engage with me, you sure do keep fucking responding a lot. All the ideas I have thrown out make it harder for this to happen. You can sit and play the blame game. It's endless. I'd rather try to discuss possible solutions. But not with you. You're not here to discuss anything. All you do is argue with people almost 100% of the time. And this coming from a guy who argues a lot.

[MICHHAWK]

It's not just saying "nope, won't work". It's trying to use your brain to analyze the flippant assumptions made by others to see if they are legitimate answers. It's trying to put some thought into the realities and hurdles faced by many of the "solutions" that are being thrown out there.

"My guess is a large portion of schools already have a police officer or security guard. " - assumption with zero attempt to verify

"And we have plenty of money to reallocate from other areas of government spending that aren't as nearly as important as protecting schools. " - assumption with zero attempt to verify

"You're doing exactly what you bitch about the "other side" doing. Just saying "nope, won't work". Rinse. Repeat. " - just blatantly wrong so this can fit in your "both sides do it" shtick you lean on to fill space.

"There is no magic law we can pass to make guns not exist. Making that your only priority is foolish. Even if guns stopped being sold tomorrow that isn't THE fix. " I have never stated it is the only fix, another assumption with nothing to support it. You're just arguing to argue at this point.

"It's going to take multiple laws, multiple strategies, and a whole lot less worrying about what it costs to protect school children. " None of the laws involving guns have a chance to pass if Republicans are involved in the voting. And all of the changes surrounding access points into a school are easily maneuvered around. Stand outside virtually any door at any school for more than 15 minutes or so and that door will open and no one coming out of it is going to try to prevent a guy with a gun from entering.

maybe the moderators should lock this thread to all contributors not named twocoach. since you are the only one qualified.

[twocoach]

1 side is all like: well the bad guys will still have guns and the bad guys will get guns illegally..

The other side is all like: anything short of no guns allowed won't help.

I call bs. No one has legitimately said no guns allowed. You are listening to the red hats again.

I'm listening to twocoach say numerous reasonable ideas won't stop 100% so they aren't worth it.

I can sit and say the same thing about every single idea other than someone magically making guns not exist.

Time to do something. Anything. Try everything. What do we have to lose? Other than more children.

Sorry but the reality of today's political garbage heap is that you have to be wise about what you try to do or it is instantly shredded as yet another attempt to (fill in the blank). The whole "do something, anything" approach is how you end up with hundreds more laws that have been passed by the House that sit gathering dust on Mitch McConnell's desk. If you are not smart, rational and measured and you don't take the finances into account in the attempts then it is a big fat waste of time and nothing is accomplished despite all that is "done".

You are looking for the symbolic "do something". I am looking for someone to accomplish something.

[Deleted User 863]

I call bs. No one has legitimately said no guns allowed. You are listening to the red hats again.

I'm listening to twocoach say numerous reasonable ideas won't stop 100% so they aren't worth it.

I can sit and say the same thing about every single idea other than someone magically making guns not exist.

Time to do something. Anything. Try everything. What do we have to lose? Other than more children.

Sorry but the reality of today's political garbage heap is that you have to be wise about what you try to do or it is instantly shredded as yet another attempt to (fill in the blank). The whole "do something, anything" approach is how you end up with hundreds more laws that have been passed by the House that sit gathering dust on Mitch McConnell's desk. If you are not smart, rational and measured and you don't take the finances into account in the attempts then it is a big fat waste of time and nothing is accomplished despite all that is "done".

You are looking for the symbolic "do something". I am looking for someone to accomplish something.

On.

And on


And on.



Engaging yet again.

[Deleted User 863]

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/america ... ategories/


Plenty of money being spent on less important stuff that could be reallocated to making children safe at school.

Foreign Aid = $51 billion for 2020.


Those some verification.

[twocoach]

I bet if we imposed large taxes on firearm sales and ammo sales that it would fund a decent portion of that. As well as not over policing certain areas. If we are going to over fund the police let's do it for a good cause.

Let's do the math on it instead of speculating.
500,000 school security guards @ $50,000 salary per year = Annual salary of $25 billion
I assume that we'd also have to cover the cost of arming them and continually training them.

There is no chance that even a 50% tax on US gun and ammo sales would be "a decent portion" of that cost and there is a 0% chance you could pass a tax even remotely close to that number.

Also,

You randomly pick out 4 per school.
And ignore that private schools can be made to pay for their own security if they want to be allowed to operate. We have rules/regulations for private schools already that must be followed for them to operate. We can add a few more to save even 1 childs life.

Conveniently assume there are 0 schools with cops/security already.

And randomly pick out 50% tax. Why not 1000% tax?

Just to argue and be contrarian. And provide no worthwhile suggestions to what you think would actually help stop this.

My ideas would very likely stop at minimum 1 incident. If it stops 1 single incident then it's worth it in my opinion.

Your silly idea of a huge tax on all gun and ammo sales would never even get to a vote, so how would it stop anything?

[twocoach]

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/america ... ategories/


Plenty of money being spent on less important stuff that could be reallocated to making children safe at school.


Those some verification.

Which of those specifically do you feel are less important stuff that could have it's funding slashed?

[MICHHAWK]

Which of those specifically do you feel are less important stuff that could have it's funding slashed?

50 billion to the ukraine.

[twocoach]

Which of those specifically do you feel are less important stuff that could have it's funding slashed?

50 billion to the ukraine.

You're OK with the consequences to the world as well as to US consumers if that is allowed to go unchecked?

[Deleted User 863]

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/america ... ategories/


Plenty of money being spent on less important stuff that could be reallocated to making children safe at school.


Those some verification.

Which of those specifically do you feel are less important stuff that could have it's funding slashed?

I would prioritize keeping children safe at school as #1. So take your pick.


On.

And on.


And on.

[Deleted User 863]

Which of those specifically do you feel are less important stuff that could have it's funding slashed?

50 billion to the ukraine.

You're OK with the consequences to the world as well as to US consumers if that is allowed to go unchecked?

I am more worried about kids being safe at school in our country than anything to do with countries on the other side of the world.

[twocoach]

Meanwhile, we have a Supreme Court that wants to loosen gun regulations and laws so that we can have more funerals for children while we enjoy our freedums.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics ... index.html

The negative effect of Trump's Presidency and the justices and judges he appointed will be felt for an entire generation. Him being elected will set us back 30 years.

[twocoach]

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/america ... ategories/


Plenty of money being spent on less important stuff that could be reallocated to making children safe at school.


Those some verification.

Which of those specifically do you feel are less important stuff that could have it's funding slashed?

I would prioritize keeping children safe at school as #1. So take your pick.


On.

And on.


And on.

You encourage discussion so I asked a follow up question. That is what a discussion is. Don't claim to be about discussion and then act like a toddler.

[Deleted User 863]

Has the problem our country has with bully culture been discussed yet?