2024/2025 Lineup

[randylahey]

Here's a not so hot take:

KJs lack of outside shooting impacts Hunter significantly more than it does Storr or Griffen. And yet HD still finds ways to be impactful most nights.

KJs lack of shooting impacts everyone. Cause unless he's on the interior the other team can essentially play 5 on 4 and have KJs man sagging off as a safety net

[jfish26]

Can say it until I’m blue in the face: you can have exactly one (1) guy the other team doesn’t guard out to the line.

We play 25+ mpg with two of those.

[DeletedUser]

Can say it until I’m blue in the face: you can have exactly one (1) guy the other team doesn’t guard out to the line.

We play 25+ mpg with two of those.

Tennessee has 2. They seem to be doing fine.

They've also got 2 other rotation players who haven't made a 3 on the year.

[DeletedUser]

Of the players averaging more than 15mpg for Tennessee:

2 haven't even attempted a 3 this season.

2 shoot below 30% from 3.

1 is shooting 32% from 3.

And the other 2 shoot 39% and 47% from 3.

The one who takes the most attempts is shooting 32%. And their player 2nd in minutes per game shoots 4 times a game (from 2 and 3 combined) with a 29% 3pt % on less than 2 attempts per game from 3, and only averages 6pts.

[DeletedUser]

unless he's on the interior the other team can essentially play 5 on 4 and have KJs man sagging off as a safety net

Sure, if he just stands at the top of the key. Which is why our offense isn't designed for him to stand around the top of the key.

[DeletedUser]

Here's a not so hot take:

KJs lack of outside shooting impacts Hunter significantly more than it does Storr or Griffen. And yet HD still finds ways to be impactful most nights.

Yes. But that’s also the argument for four-out. Which was effective in extended run the other day.

Self said it wasn't effective the other day when AJ was at the 4.

One of you two is wrong. I am not necessarily saying it's you, but he's in the HOF for being a basketball coach.

[jfish26]

Here's a not so hot take:

KJs lack of outside shooting impacts Hunter significantly more than it does Storr or Griffen. And yet HD still finds ways to be impactful most nights.

Yes. But that’s also the argument for four-out. Which was effective in extended run the other day.

Self said it wasn't effective the other day when AJ was at the 4.

One of you two is wrong.

The numbers are what they are.

Self has his own biases that color his opinion of what he sees, and he badly wants playing KJ 30 minutes to work.

I do, too! I love KJ.

But we can't effing score the way we're playing.

[pdub]

I think Illy is making a valid point with Tennessee.
Why don't you all address what he's bringing up?
Seems as if you are skirting around it at the moment.

[DeletedUser]

But we can't effing score the way we're playing.

I don't want to go round and round over the same thing, but in our loss to Mizzou it wasn't spacing or shooting that fucked us, it was turnovers.


And the other side of the coin that we tend to ignore in these discussions is that half of basketball is defense.

Who are our 3 best defenders? Probably DH KJ and probably Hunter.

If Storr were a Josh Jackson type, I'd be all for it. But he isn't. KJ isn't a great rebounder, but Storr and Griffen certainly aren't either.

I don't think we have the horses to be a run and gun high scoring team, regardless of who we put out there.

I actually think there is an equally as compelling argument to be made that we could try going big with KJ at the 3 and Bidunga at the 4 for those 5 or so minutes we've been trying to go with Storr at the 4. More rebounding and shot blocking. Length and strength.

I think this teams identity needs to be defense, not offense.

[jfish26]

But we can't effing score the way we're playing.

I don't think we have the horses to be a run and gun high scoring team, regardless of who we put out there.

I think we need to find out.

I'm not confident that we're ever going to be (in the context of title contenders!) a better than above-average defensive team with Hunter.

[DeletedUser]

I think Illy is making a valid point with Tennessee.
Why don't you all address what he's bringing up?
Seems as if you are skirting around it at the moment.

When i have more time I am going to go through more of the top 25 teams stats. Uconn also plays Diarra who is a non shooter and 2 bigs who aren't shooters. But, they have 2 or 3 really good shooters also.

I'm curious to see how many other teams have multiple rotation players who aren't 3pt threats. And, tbh, KJ is our only non 3pt threat. I think DH is doing fine this year at making sure he shoots when they leave him "too open"

[DeletedUser]

But we can't effing score the way we're playing.

I don't think we have the horses to be a run and gun high scoring team, regardless of who we put out there.

I think we need to find out.

I'm not confident that we're ever going to be (in the context of title contenders!) a better than above-average defensive team with Hunter.

I think if Storr or Griffen were electric scorers they'd already be in the NBA. Or at minimum on NBA radar. They're not.

And can we only find out in games?

Self mentioned Storr struggling in practice too.

And it's not like Storr is playing 7mpg. He's playing 21 minutes per game.

We're trying to "find out". I am 100% certain that Self doesn't want Coit to be more playable than Griffen and/or Storr. Unfortunately, that's where we are at.

Things I'm looking at:

Rebounds per 40
Turnovers per 40
And defense.

Storr is averaging more shots per 40 than everyone other than Zeke and HD.

[jfish26]

I think Illy is making a valid point with Tennessee.
Why don't you all address what he's bringing up?
Seems as if you are skirting around it at the moment.

Honestly, because I haven't watched a ton of Tennessee and don't want to just scout the box score.

[DeletedUser]

I think Illy is making a valid point with Tennessee.
Why don't you all address what he's bringing up?
Seems as if you are skirting around it at the moment.

Honestly, because I haven't watched a ton of Tennessee and don't want to just scout the box score.

I haven't either. 2 games.

I am basically going to sports reference and sorting the top teams by minutes per game to determine their main rotation. Then scrolling over to the columns with 3pt attempts and 3pt %.

[DeletedUser]

It's definitely a conundrum.

Do you want less minutes for your best defender (KJ) to get minutes for your 3rd best scorer in Aj (being generous there)?

Does that make the team better? Do we win more games that way? Seems doubtful to me.

I'd like to see Storr or Griffen separate themselves from each other or at least Coit, before we worry about them taking minutes from KJ.

[jfish26]

I don't think we have the horses to be a run and gun high scoring team, regardless of who we put out there.

I think we need to find out.

I'm not confident that we're ever going to be (in the context of title contenders!) a better than above-average defensive team with Hunter.

I think if Storr or Griffen were electric scorers they'd already be in the NBA. Or at minimum on NBA radar. They're not.

And can we only find out in games?

Self mentioned Storr struggling in practice too.

And it's not like Storr is playing 7mpg. He's playing 21 minutes per game.

We're trying to "find out". I am 100% certain that Self doesn't want Coit to be more playable than Griffen and/or Storr. Unfortunately, that's where we are at.

Things I'm looking at:

Rebounds per 40
Turnovers per 40
And defense.

Storr is averaging more shots per 40 than everyone other than Zeke and HD.

The best analog that immediately comes to mind is how much difficulty Andy Reid has had with getting much out of young receivers until they have been around for a while.

I think what Bill wants to do is very difficult with the way he's constructed this roster - and so, I expect that over the next 2-3 years we will see a move in one direction or the other.

Either he will make his stuff easier for transfers to grok, or he will focus on getting guys who will be around longer.

[DeletedUser]

I think what Bill wants to do is very difficult with the way he's constructed this roster - and so, I expect that over the next 2-3 years we will see a move in one direction or the other.

Either he will make his stuff easier for transfers to grok, or he will focus on getting guys who will be around longer.

That's definitely part of it.

I saw Buzz Williams talking about Purdue the other night. He said during their scout they counted something like 70+ plays Purdue ran in whatever games they were analyzing (assuming it was multiple games, since 70 possessions seems like too much for 1 game).

I am not sure we have 25 different plays we've ran all year.

With modern technology and analytics, doing the same shit over and over becomes very easy for the other team to scout if their coaching staff is even remotely competent.

That's becoming an issue for us.

[mjl2]

Illy bringin' it. Good takes.

[randylahey]

I think what Bill wants to do is very difficult with the way he's constructed this roster - and so, I expect that over the next 2-3 years we will see a move in one direction or the other.

Either he will make his stuff easier for transfers to grok, or he will focus on getting guys who will be around longer.

That's definitely part of it.

I saw Buzz Williams talking about Purdue the other night. He said during their scout they counted something like 70+ plays Purdue ran in whatever games they were analyzing (assuming it was multiple games, since 70 possessions seems like too much for 1 game).

I am not sure we have 25 different plays we've ran all year.

With modern technology and analytics, doing the same shit over and over becomes very easy for the other team to scout if their coaching staff is even remotely competent.

That's becoming an issue for us.

We are definitely a bit over scouted, that for sure. Self has essentially ran the same stuff for decades

But he does tweak it based on personnel

[Shirley]