Kansas Crimson

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:46 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:42 am And i'm arguing that to counter that, the NCAA aims to make college sports less about a money making engine and more like what it was originally intended.

Yes. That would be ideal.

But unfortunately that's not what the NCAA wants. They don't want to lose their cash cows. They want ALL the money for themselves and their interests.

Where fans and NCAA interests align is that they both want CBB to be on TV. Not a hard concept.

The marketing wiz isn't competing in a league where you get wins and losses and where, to get the best players to be able to win, a normal job that might pay 1000 dollars, could easily be manipulated as an avenue by those invested in the program, to pay out 10-20 times that, all for more wins.

If a player was actually just getting a job where they'd say coach some kids on the side for the actual value ( miss me with "but it IS actual value bc capitalism" ) I wouldn't be opposed but that's not what this will be.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:01 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:20 amAre internships unfair

Unpaid ones? Absolutely. Really not even a debate anymore. It's wrong.

What about ones that include room and board, extensive and specific training toward your goal job, extensive training toward alternate career paths, travel, and the best opportunity for exposure to sell your skills to the best companies in the business. Not too mention a stipend and unlimited coeds.

Sounds like a helluva internship.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:28 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:16 pm
You can go back to the days with Phog on the bench, do you really believe kids were coming in from all over the country, and other countries, with the attitude of "I can't wait to play my heart out and represent this university that up until a few months ago I had absolutely no connection to."?

Thousands of kids every year come from all over the country, and other countries, and pay to go to KU, no scholarship, and love it.

Why is it hard to imagine a kid from out of state seeing KU do well on ESPN/CBS, getting good enough to play for a college, and have Bill Self call them, visit the campus, and get a full ride to a prestigious basketball program, and be excited about it?

Maybe we should just eliminate athletic scholarships, then?

And while we’re at it, do away with the big contracts and endorsement money for coaches too.

Just in case having a burrito named after Self at the Salty Iguana taints the purity of the game for someone.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:25 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:01 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:20 amAre internships unfair

Unpaid ones? Absolutely. Really not even a debate anymore. It's wrong.

What about ones that include room and board, extensive and specific training toward your goal job, extensive training toward alternate career paths, travel, and the best opportunity for exposure to sell your skills to the best companies in the business. Not too mention a stipend and unlimited coeds.

Sounds like a helluva internship.

Oh, so one is compensated and the other is not.

Long ago when I thought i wanted to be in finance I signed with Prudential...they expected me (this is AFTER a degree)...to pay for my own training, pay for my own licensing, and pay to "rent" their office space as needed. The return was being associated with their brand and acceas to their client database. I sai no thanks, but there were others behind me lined up to take it. I wouldve killed for an internship like the KU guys get...

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:28 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:25 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:01 am

Unpaid ones? Absolutely. Really not even a debate anymore. It's wrong.

What about ones that include room and board, extensive and specific training toward your goal job, extensive training toward alternate career paths, travel, and the best opportunity for exposure to sell your skills to the best companies in the business. Not too mention a stipend and unlimited coeds.

Sounds like a helluva internship.

Oh, so one is compensated and the other is not.

Wut?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:27 am And while we’re at it, do away with the big contracts and endorsement money for coaches too.

Just in case having a burrito named after Self at the Salty Iguana taints the purity of the game for someone.

One is a professional in a chosen career. One is a college kid auditioning for a career.

How many musicians do open mikes and free gigs for rhe opportunity to showcase their skills in the hopes of getting a paid gig?

Who gets to decide those designations, then?

Apparently not the free market?

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:29 am Long ago when I thought i wanted to be in finance I signed with Prudential...they expected me (this is AFTER a degree)...to pay for my own training, pay for my own licensing, and pay to "rent" their office space as needed. The return was being associated with their brand and acceas to their client database. I sai no thanks, but there were others behind me lined up to take it. I wouldve killed for an internship like the KU guys get...

Which is absolute horseshit by Prudential that has assets worth (looks up) nearly a trillion dollars. I can understand why you wouldn't take it. I feel for those others behind you, many that may not have been in a position to turn down that immoral nonsense down.

I would also like to be a KU basketball player (which is not an internship, jfc), but these are all strawman arguments.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:32 am How many musicians do open mikes and free gigs for rhe opportunity to showcase their skills in the hopes of getting a paid gig?

How many musicians have to turn down that paid gig or else they aren’t allowed to perform any more?

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:30 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:28 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:25 am

What about ones that include room and board, extensive and specific training toward your goal job, extensive training toward alternate career paths, travel, and the best opportunity for exposure to sell your skills to the best companies in the business. Not too mention a stipend and unlimited coeds.

Sounds like a helluva internship.

Oh, so one is compensated and the other is not.

Wut?

You asked about whether internships are unfair. The unpaid ones absolutely are. Many of the paid ones can still be unfair. My comment was only about unpaid ones.

And again, college basketball player is not an internship.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:33 am Who gets to decide those designations, then?

Apparently not the free market?

What? One guy spent a lifetime building skills and a reputation needed to secure a job. One guy played basketball really well in High school and on the AAU circuit. Qualifications arent comparable.


Also, one guy went to college and played basketball....it gave him the opportunity to be exposed to the game and people that he chose to make his career.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:35 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:30 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:28 am

Oh, so one is compensated and the other is not.

Wut?

You asked about whether internships are unfair. The unpaid ones absolutely are. Many of the paid ones can still be unfair. My comment was only about unpaid ones.

And again, college basketball player is not an internship.

But it can be viewed as one for the sake of this discussion.


Also, as you noted, it is not an uncompensated one.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:36 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:35 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:30 am

Wut?

You asked about whether internships are unfair. The unpaid ones absolutely are. Many of the paid ones can still be unfair. My comment was only about unpaid ones.

And again, college basketball player is not an internship.

But it can be viewed as one for the sake of this discussion.

No it can't. It's a logical fallacy that completely ignores the giant elephant in the room behind the entire NIL and player compensation conversation: the college athletes are generating billions over billions of dollars and have no seat at the table to negotiate their tiny sliver of the pie. I'd never thought I'd agree with Brett Kavanaugh, but here we are.

My argument isnt that they should do it for free...its that they already don't.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:36 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:35 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:30 am

Wut?

You asked about whether internships are unfair. The unpaid ones absolutely are. Many of the paid ones can still be unfair. My comment was only about unpaid ones.

And again, college basketball player is not an internship.

But it can be viewed as one for the sake of this discussion.


Also, as you noted, it is not an uncompensated one.

Name an intern in any other role or profession who is directly responsible for the generation of millions in revenue.

College basketball players are going to have to be granted NIL rights unless the NCAA would rather be directly responsible for paying them as employees, which they certainly don't want. It's just a matter of whether or not the ncaa will put some sort of structural rules around NIL or not but it will be tricky for them to do so without being seen as an infringement on an athlete's rights to earn what they can.

It's just a matter of time before it turns into the Wild Wild West.

Semi pro sports suck