Kansas Crimson

maybe it says voters just really are disillusioned with this "democracy" that's been sold to us.

But, to answer defix question...yes. I am still pointing fingers at Democrats.

Think of it this way:

If the only thing we have standing between the impending collapse of democracy is Democrats, then, holy shit, we are so cooked!

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:14 pm
But the point that was made by the balance of my post* is that, taken together, all of the votes withheld...like yours are what caused Trump's victory.

admittedly, I am paraphrasing. It's a message board, that's prone to tangents and goalpost moves and entirely too much bickering about too many things.

So, for the sake of brevity, I think the single most important takeaway here is what I bolded.

I guess all this confusion comes from whether you meant you blame my single vote specifically (btw remember all those hypos?) that cost Dems the election, or rather blaming votes like mine that cost Dems the election.

Either way, and to circle back, if Dems DO wanna win another election, then it would behoove Dems to figure out how to win back more votes like mine.

its only been 10 days. at this pace. the internets deviants and malcontents are going to burn themselves out.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:50 pm maybe it says voters just really are disillusioned with this "democracy" that's been sold to us.

But, to answer defix question...yes. I am still pointing fingers at Democrats.

Think of it this way:

If the only thing we have standing between the impending collapse of democracy is Democrats, then, holy shit, we are so cooked!

My only recollection is that Palestine was a whole lot more important than democracy.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:58 pm It's a message board, that's prone to tangents and goalpost moves and entirely too much bickering about too many things.

You've got to realize how "eye rolly" these posts are from you, that you are regularly making, right?

defixione wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:18 pm

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:50 pm maybe it says voters just really are disillusioned with this "democracy" that's been sold to us.

But, to answer defix question...yes. I am still pointing fingers at Democrats.

Think of it this way:

If the only thing we have standing between the impending collapse of democracy is Democrats, then, holy shit, we are so cooked!

My only recollection is that Palestine was a whole lot more important than democracy.

Or egg prices, or crypto, or tax cuts, or freedom of speech, and so on. And that doesn't even get to all of the folks who voted for Trump because of (and not in spite of) the truly vile shit.

i guess only time will tell.

i predict that my life will not change.

internet malcontents are predicting generational damage and the end of democracy.

we shall see.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:58 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:14 pm
But the point that was made by the balance of my post* is that, taken together, all of the votes withheld...like yours are what caused Trump's victory.

if Dems DO wanna win another election, then it would behoove Dems to figure out how to win back more votes like mine.

And this attitude, in people who approached their votes like you did, is what I meant by, "issues voters ... recklessly and arrogantly and foolishly and selfishly failing to digest the gravity of the decision before them."

reckless = my vote doesn't matter

arrogant = my vote is about ME, not the country/world

foolish = it can't be as bad as they say; someone else will fix it

selfish = my temper tantrum about not being catered to on Issue X is more important than voting for the better of only two viable candidates

I think I've expressed this much before too, but I think it's just not the best or wisest or most effective strategy for a party or campaign to expect voters to downplay issues that matter to them.

There's come critical mass at play here; only so many issues voters are willing to downplay. And I'm afraid it's obvious Dems have surpassed that much.

In case Dems haven't noticed - what they're doing didn't work! It's time to rethink things and try something else!

Speaking of - elections for a new DNC chair are this weekend, but that's for another thread...

(I typed this before I saw Fish's response, and am still posting anyway, so I can also respond directly to fish's other stuff)

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:09 pm

And this attitude, in people who approached their votes like you did, is what I meant by, "issues voters ... recklessly and arrogantly and foolishly and selfishly failing to digest the gravity of the decision before them."

reckless = my vote doesn't matter

arrogant = my vote is about ME, not the country/world

foolish = it can't be as bad as they say; someone else will fix it

selfish = my temper tantrum about not being catered to on Issue X is more important than voting for the better of only two viable candidates

what, exactly, is your solution, then?

it seems like all roads lead back to something to the effect of, "vote blue no matter who," but please do correct me if I am mistaken.

And though it's tempting to respond to every single point you try, for the sake of brevity - I think shaming voters as selfish for "not being catered to on issue X" I think is less wise than actually figuring out how to appeal to voters on issues that matter to them. There's an opportunity here!

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:25 pm

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:58 pm It's a message board, that's prone to tangents and goalpost moves and entirely too much bickering about too many things.

You've got to realize how "eye rolly" these posts are from you, that you are regularly making, right?

yeah, sure, I do realize that.

Do you realize how frequently you appear on the pols board not to engage in pols board discussion, but simply to antagonize me personally?

I mean, wasn't it just this morning you claimed that, "after speaking with a couple longtime respected posters privately, I've tried to lay off you a little bit, simply out of respect for them."

and yet, here you are, once again either unwilling or unable to simply "lay off" me a little bit.

And while I'm afraid you simply won't or can't "lay off" despite my repeated requests, could you please try to do it out of respect to those "couple longtime respected posters?"

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:13 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:09 pm

And this attitude, in people who approached their votes like you did, is what I meant by, "issues voters ... recklessly and arrogantly and foolishly and selfishly failing to digest the gravity of the decision before them."

reckless = my vote doesn't matter

arrogant = my vote is about ME, not the country/world

foolish = it can't be as bad as they say; someone else will fix it

selfish = my temper tantrum about not being catered to on Issue X is more important than voting for the better of only two viable candidates

what, exactly, is your solution, then?

it seems like all roads lead back to something to the effect of, "vote blue no matter who," but please do correct me if I am mistaken.

And though it's tempting to respond to every single point you try, for the sake of brevity - I think shaming voters as selfish for "not being catered to on issue X" I think is less wise than actually figuring out how to appeal to voters on issues that matter to them. There's an opportunity here!

I am of the opinion that it is MY responsibility to vote responsibly. Not the candidates' responsibility to convince me to vote responsibly.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:16 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:25 pm

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:58 pm It's a message board, that's prone to tangents and goalpost moves and entirely too much bickering about too many things.

You've got to realize how "eye rolly" these posts are from you, that you are regularly making, right?

yeah, sure, I do realize that.

I'm not sure you do realize it, but have you considered resisting the urge? Especially to some of these posters (not me) who have given you a lot more grace than you deserve quite frankly.

And this is me laying off. You don't get to run around an then cry uncle and have everyone acquiese to your requests and let you run wild in every thread you touch. Laying off doesn't equal unlimited free pass.

You've made over 50 posts since approximately 10pm (central) last night. And that's with a 9hr break while you slept.

There has to be better things to do with your time. You're just jibber jabbering in every single thread.


(That's me NOT laying off)

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:17 pm

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:13 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:09 pm

And this attitude, in people who approached their votes like you did, is what I meant by, "issues voters ... recklessly and arrogantly and foolishly and selfishly failing to digest the gravity of the decision before them."

reckless = my vote doesn't matter

arrogant = my vote is about ME, not the country/world

foolish = it can't be as bad as they say; someone else will fix it

selfish = my temper tantrum about not being catered to on Issue X is more important than voting for the better of only two viable candidates

what, exactly, is your solution, then?

it seems like all roads lead back to something to the effect of, "vote blue no matter who," but please do correct me if I am mistaken.

And though it's tempting to respond to every single point you try, for the sake of brevity - I think shaming voters as selfish for "not being catered to on issue X" I think is less wise than actually figuring out how to appeal to voters on issues that matter to them. There's an opportunity here!

I am of the opinion that it is MY responsibility to vote responsibly. Not the candidates' responsibility to convince me to vote responsibly.

I just think there can and should be more to "vote responsibly" than just rigidly conform to the confines of the major parties - ESPECIALLY when your opinion on responsible voting seems to expect a voter to disregard whatever issue/s is or are most important to them.

And I think candidates DO have a responsibility to convince voters. That's exactly what elections are for!

But, holy shit, this all makes my head hurt. If the only responsibility we as voters have, is to vote for candidates who have no responsibility to convince us otherwise, holy shit, our democracy is like SO cooked.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:33 pm You've made over 50 posts since approximately 10pm (central) last night. And that's with a 9hr break while you slept.

There has to be better things to do with your time. You're just jibber jabbering in every single thread.


(That's me NOT laying off)

dude, illy, it's really fucking weird for you to chase me around about what I've done since 10pm last night, and commenting on a break while I slept, holy shit.

you gotta realize how overly-attached girlfriend you're being!

of course my vote is based on what i think is best for me. everybody's is. and if they say otherwise they are lying.

'it seems like all roads lead back to something to the effect of, "vote for democracy [/n]no matter who," but please do correct me if I am mistaken."

Now you get it.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:34 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:17 pm

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:13 pm

what, exactly, is your solution, then?

it seems like all roads lead back to something to the effect of, "vote blue no matter who," but please do correct me if I am mistaken.

And though it's tempting to respond to every single point you try, for the sake of brevity - I think shaming voters as selfish for "not being catered to on issue X" I think is less wise than actually figuring out how to appeal to voters on issues that matter to them. There's an opportunity here!

I am of the opinion that it is MY responsibility to vote responsibly. Not the candidates' responsibility to convince me to vote responsibly.

I just think there can and should be more to "vote responsibly" than just rigidly conform to the confines of the major parties - ESPECIALLY when your opinion on responsible voting seems to expect a voter to disregard whatever issue/s is or are most important to them.

And I think candidates DO have a responsibility to convince voters. That's exactly what elections are for!

But, holy shit, this all makes my head hurt. If the only responsibility we as voters have, is to vote for candidates who have no responsibility to convince us otherwise, holy shit, our democracy is like SO cooked.

You continue to seek out ways to make simple things difficult.

There is a BIG group of people out there, to which you belong, that knew that a vote for Harris was the responsible thing to do, but did not vote for Harris, because she did not cater sufficiently to THEIR pet issue(s).

As a BIG group, that group deserves criticism for putting themselves above the country.

And in some cases, further criticism for the cherry on top being that Trump is demonstrably WORSE on their pet issue(s) than Harris would have been.