Kansas Crimson

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:01 am "how hard can it be to say Nazis are bad?"

The problem is when you count on Trump to do something "Presidential." He'll fuck that up, just like his casinos.

Why is anyone surprised?

chiknbut wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:13 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:01 am "how hard can it be to say Nazis are bad?"

The problem is when you count on Trump to do something "Presidential." He'll fuck that up, just like his casinos.

Why is anyone surprised?

Most of the people who did not vote for him are not surprised at all.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:57 am The problem isnt the words or the twisting of them, you know that. It is WHEN he chose to use them. The only correct statement at that time would have been to unequivocably denounce all white supremists and their actions. Instead, he chose to attempt to make their side look a little less terrible. It's passive support and shows he is only about him and whoever supports him, regardless the level of scum they are.

Support of Trump is a character trait viewed by Trump as more important than any other trait or flaw.

I agree he should have used different words at that moment. No doubt about it. He brings a lot on himself because he's not someone who thinks much before he speaks.

But......not all people who were against removal of those monuments were white supremacists. In fact I'd be willing to guess that most people who were against removal of those monuments were not white supremacists.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:35 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:57 am The problem isnt the words or the twisting of them, you know that. It is WHEN he chose to use them. The only correct statement at that time would have been to unequivocably denounce all white supremists and their actions. Instead, he chose to attempt to make their side look a little less terrible. It's passive support and shows he is only about him and whoever supports him, regardless the level of scum they are.

Support of Trump is a character trait viewed by Trump as more important than any other trait or flaw.

I agree he should have used different words at that moment. No doubt about it. He brings a lot on himself because he's not someone who thinks much before he speaks.

But......not all people who were against removal of those monuments were white supremacists. In fact I'd be willing to guess that most people who were against removal of those monuments were not white supremacists.

How many people who weren't white supremacists were there just to protest the removal of those statues?

Don't guess. Don't assume that "most" were. Research the rally and give us your most educated estimation. Here is a clue. It will be a number significantly lower than "most".

And it doesn't matter because the proper Presidential response was to denounce the thousands of white supremacists, not to deflect by pointing out the dozens of "very fine people" just there to protest about a statue. Very fime people protest shit all the time in this country without the need for the President to comment on them. Trump was making a statement because thousands of white supremacists gathered, resulting in one of them murdering someone by driving their car through a crowd.

So you've researched and determined only a dozen people weren't white supremacists?

Or are you guessing and assuming?

Just asking because you asked me not to do those things (guess/assume) and then appear to have done exactly that in your response.


But, I do agree his response was incorrect. I just thinks its laughable to pretend he said white supremacists were "very fine people" because that's clearly not what he was saying.

If they weren’t white supremacists, at the very least they were okay with white supremacy, which isn’t exactly any better.

What good people would ever be caught marching in step with a bunch of motherfuckers waving swastika flags?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:35 am But......not all people who were against removal of those monuments were white supremacists. In fact I'd be willing to guess that most people who were against removal of those monuments were not white supremacists.

So, who would they have been? Pigeon-$h!t connoisseurs? What, pray tell, would be the reason that anyone would be opposed to removal of monuments dedicated to racism* and racists?

*Public Service Announcement: "Confederate Heritage" is code word for "racism" and "white-supremacy". These guys fought a war over the right to enslave fellow human beings (who, to be fair, they did not consider as such).

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:19 pm So you've researched and determined only a dozen people weren't white supremacists?

Or are you guessing and assuming?

Just asking because you asked me not to do those things (guess/assume) and then appear to have done exactly that in your response.


But, I do agree his response was incorrect. I just thinks its laughable to pretend he said white supremacists were "very fine people" because that's clearly not what he was saying.

I do that all the time. Part of rushing to get a post done, I guess. And I can't do links in any quick fashion now that I am relegated to accessing this site through my phone. I am not perfect.

And now we're just arguing over symantics. It was a disgusting thing to say by Trump and horribly unpresidential to say it when he did.

And the worst of it to me is that it wasn't a mistake. He has a consistent pattern of buckshotting a dozen ridiculous statements into the ether just to distract and deflect from the fact that he doesn't really give a shit about either side of the issue. Trump probably thinks as little of white supremacists as he does black people but it is not in his best interest to say that out loud.

Whether you want to admit it or not, throwing shade at those against white supremacy has been a net win for Trump from a support perspective. "Those Damn Libs" is screamed by one of his supporters here every single day.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:34 am

Geezer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:51 am

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:20 am

So fucking dum.

Dum would be to ignore it.

Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah terrorists praised Obama.

Does that reflect on him?

meh

zsn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:50 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:35 am But......not all people who were against removal of those monuments were white supremacists. In fact I'd be willing to guess that most people who were against removal of those monuments were not white supremacists.

So, who would they have been? Pigeon-$h!t connoisseurs? What, pray tell, would be the reason that anyone would be opposed to removal of monuments dedicated to racism* and racists?

*Public Service Announcement: "Confederate Heritage" is code word for "racism" and "white-supremacy". These guys fought a war over the right to enslave fellow human beings (who, to be fair, they did not consider as such).

You ever lived in the south?

I did for a handful of years. One of my best friends was a black guy from the Carolinas (went to Zion Williamson's high school in Spartanburg I believe)....he rocked a confederate flag sticker on his truck, had a confederate flag in his house, and indicated his stance against removing the monuments on his social media several times. He dislikes trump. He's pro cop. He's a lot of things liberals don't think black people can be. And he's not alone.

So yes, some people other than racists do take some sort of pride in the history and monuments related to the Confederacy.


Also, the war was over many things other than just slaves....but I feel like you probably knew that.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:40 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:50 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:35 am But......not all people who were against removal of those monuments were white supremacists. In fact I'd be willing to guess that most people who were against removal of those monuments were not white supremacists.

So, who would they have been? Pigeon-$h!t connoisseurs? What, pray tell, would be the reason that anyone would be opposed to removal of monuments dedicated to racism* and racists?

*Public Service Announcement: "Confederate Heritage" is code word for "racism" and "white-supremacy". These guys fought a war over the right to enslave fellow human beings (who, to be fair, they did not consider as such).

You ever lived in the south?

I did for a handful of years. One of my best friends was a black guy from the Carolinas (went to Zion Williamson's high school in Spartanburg I believe)....he rocked a confederate flag sticker on his truck, had a confederate flag in his house, and indicated his stance against removing the monuments on his social media several times. He dislikes trump. He's pro cop. He's a lot of things liberals don't think black people can be. And he's not alone.

So yes, some people other than racists do take some sort of pride in the history and monuments related to the Confederacy.


Also, the war was over many things other than just slaves....but I feel like you probably knew that.

"One of my best friends was a black guy"

Jeez

Please tell us that you didn't attend the University of Kansas, because you shame those of us who graduated from the college endowed by Sara Robinson, who knew exactly what the Civil War was over--and it was ONLY about slavery. Nothing else.

The departing states said exactly what the issue was--the right to beat, torture, rape, kill other human beings at will. BTW, I've lived in the South a very long time and never met a black person who supported the concept of his ancestors being raped, tortured, murdered, burned.

You can find what the Southerners explained was the reason for leaving the Union at this link (hint, it's all about slavery): https://www.battlefields.org/learn/prim ... ing-states.

Since Illinois seems somewhat ignorant of actual history, here's what the Mississippians had to say about why they left the Union,

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.

"Also, the war was over many things other than just slaves....but I feel like you probably knew that."

And there we have it!

“State’s rights!”

That was Calhoun's bullshit fabrication to justify secession over slavery.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/13/66633267 ... rvey-finds

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:07 am https://www.npr.org/2018/11/13/66633267 ... rvey-finds

Sad and disgusting.

I'd love to see how different those percentages of people who experienced harassment would look compared to a decade ago....I kind of feel like they're probably pretty similar, but that's just a guess. Racism didn't start when trump got elected, although he's definitely caused it to boil over both indirectly and directly with his word and actions.

related...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-see ... d=59164448

FBI sees 17 percent increase in hate crimes compared to 2016

Two weeks after the deadly Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, the FBI released it's 2017 hate crimes statistics which revealed a 17 percent increase in incidents since 2016.

In 2017 there were 8,493 victims and 6,307 known offenders. By comparison there were 7,509 victims and 5,727 known offenders in 2016, according to the data. It's also worth noting that more law enforcement agencies participated in reporting hate crime statistics in 2017.

"This report is a call to action -- and we will heed that call," Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker said in a statement. "The Department of Justice’s top priority is to reduce violent crime in America, and hate crimes are violent crimes."

In 2016 there were 6,036 single-bias incidents, or occurrences where the perpetrator has one bias against a community or group. By comparison, in 2017, there were 7,106 single-bias incidents reported.

According to the FBI, "58.1 percent were motivated by a race/ethnicity/ancestry bias, 22.0 percent were prompted by religious bias, 15.9 percent resulted from sexual-orientation bias and 1.7 percent were motivated by gender-identity bias."