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Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:39 pm
by DCHawk1
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:47 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:46 pm
Yes it is. Raising the minimum wage to combat higher prices is not the answer. The middle class gets fucked in that scenario, they aren't raising the salaries of middle income people but when you have to pay minimum wage quality employees more it will raise the prices of goods and services.
I'm not that old. When I started working minimum wage was something like 3.85/hr. Now 25 years later were saying it needs to be 15?!?! Thats worrisome. Throwing more money at the minimum wage employee is not addressing the underlying issue but is contributing to the cause of inflation.
i completely agree, but until other mechanisms change to balance things out the minimum wage worker is living in poverty
That's almost entirely untrue.
faCts DOn'T maTtER!
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:29 pm
by Geezer
I said conservatives were stupid talking about the economy.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:32 pm
by DCHawk1
Ah.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:31 am
by Deleted User 89
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:39 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:47 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:46 pm
Yes it is. Raising the minimum wage to combat higher prices is not the answer. The middle class gets fucked in that scenario, they aren't raising the salaries of middle income people but when you have to pay minimum wage quality employees more it will raise the prices of goods and services.
I'm not that old. When I started working minimum wage was something like 3.85/hr. Now 25 years later were saying it needs to be 15?!?! Thats worrisome. Throwing more money at the minimum wage employee is not addressing the underlying issue but is contributing to the cause of inflation.
i completely agree, but until other mechanisms change to balance things out the minimum wage worker is living in poverty
That's almost entirely untrue.
faCts DOn'T maTtER!
um, it’s either untrue or it isn’t
the current federal minimum wage is $7.25, which equates to $15k/year
federal poverty line for the lower 48 is ~$12.5k
do you really think there is much difference in the standard of living between those two groups, regardless of whether you actually call it poverty or not?
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 am
by TDub
ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:13 pm
I’m not trying to argue against accumulation of capital wealth in itself.
If anything, when you consider how the accumulation of wealth works in Merica, and to whom it goes, I just don’t wanna be the one to tell the struggling millions among working class that no they don’t deserve any better.
Raising the minimum wage is not helping the struggling working class. That's my point. It helps the minimum wage worker feel better about themselves, but no real improvement in spending power. It fucks the working middle class. The upperclassmen remains largely unaffected.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:36 am
by TDub
Also, do you really think the teenage employee at the froyo shop who spends 92% of their day on Facebook deserves $15/hr? Most working class - laborer types (non union) non minimum wage employees are making 16-22 an hour. That's who you're hurting with this push for justice.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:07 am
by DCHawk1
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:31 am
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:39 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:47 pm
i completely agree, but until other mechanisms change to balance things out the minimum wage worker is living in poverty
That's almost entirely untrue.
faCts DOn'T maTtER!
um, it’s either untrue or it isn’t
the current federal minimum wage is $7.25, which equates to $15k/year
federal poverty line for the lower 48 is ~$12.5k
do you really think there is much difference in the standard of living between those two groups, regardless of whether you actually call it poverty or not?
And almost no heads-of-families work for minimum wage. The overwhelming majority of minimum wage workers are second or third household earners.
ETA:
In 2017, 80.4 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 542,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.3 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.8 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 2.3 percent of all hourly paid workers.
The percentage of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 2.7 percent in 2016 to 2.3 percent in 2017. This remains well below the percentage of 13.4 recorded in 1979, when data were first collected on a regular basis....
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers (ages 16 to 19) paid by the hour, about 8 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 1 percent of workers age 25 and older....
About 6 percent of part-time workers (persons who usually work fewer than 35 hours per week) were paid the federal minimum wage or less, compared with about 1 percent of full-time workers....
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimu ... 7/home.htm
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:12 am
by ousdahl
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:13 pm
I’m not trying to argue against accumulation of capital wealth in itself.
If anything, when you consider how the accumulation of wealth works in Merica, and to whom it goes, I just don’t wanna be the one to tell the struggling millions among working class that no they don’t deserve any better.
Raising the minimum wage is not helping the struggling working class. That's my point. It helps the minimum wage worker feel better about themselves, but no real improvement in spending power. It fucks the working middle class. The upperclassmen remains largely unaffected.
Why shouldn’t a minimum wage worker feel better about themself?
How does earning more money
not improve their spending power?
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:14 am
by ousdahl
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:36 am
Also, do you really think the teenage employee at the froyo shop who spends 92% of their day on Facebook deserves $15/hr? Most working class - laborer types (non union) non minimum wage employees are making 16-22 an hour. That's who you're hurting with this push for justice.
How about when the CEO is making hundreds of times as much as that?
(and let’s not even get started about how much the CEO of Facebook makes...)
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:21 am
by DCHawk1
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:14 am
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:36 am
Also, do you really think the teenage employee at the froyo shop who spends 92% of their day on Facebook deserves $15/hr? Most working class - laborer types (non union) non minimum wage employees are making 16-22 an hour. That's who you're hurting with this push for justice.
How about when the CEO is making hundreds of times as much as that?
(and let’s not even get started about how much the CEO of Facebook makes...)
How much does the CEO of Facebook "make"?
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:23 am
by ousdahl
Let’s not even get started...
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:23 am
by TDub
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:12 am
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:13 pm
I’m not trying to argue against accumulation of capital wealth in itself.
If anything, when you consider how the accumulation of wealth works in Merica, and to whom it goes, I just don’t wanna be the one to tell the struggling millions among working class that no they don’t deserve any better.
Raising the minimum wage is not helping the struggling working class. That's my point. It helps the minimum wage worker feel better about themselves, but no real improvement in spending power. It fucks the working middle class. The upperclassmen remains largely unaffected.
Why shouldn’t a minimum wage worker feel better about themself?
How does earning more money
not improve their spending power?
Because a higher minimum wage increases the overhead of companies which then pass that on to the consumer thus negating any perceived benefit from a higher minimum wage. Basic economics. The business owners arent going to eat the higher cost of employees and cut into their profit margin, they will pass that on to the consumer. Essentially minimum wage employees will stay at/near poverty line but the mid range earners will be pushed farther towards the new poverty line.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:25 am
by TDub
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:14 am
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:36 am
Also, do you really think the teenage employee at the froyo shop who spends 92% of their day on Facebook deserves $15/hr? Most working class - laborer types (non union) non minimum wage employees are making 16-22 an hour. That's who you're hurting with this push for justice.
How about when the CEO is making hundreds of times as much as that?
(and let’s not even get started about how much the CEO of Facebook makes...)
CEO salaries are not what were talking about here. That is driven by the consumeristic nature of society. That's capitalism.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:33 am
by ousdahl
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:35 am
by ousdahl
not to mention the increase in worker productivity has far outpaced the (lack of) increase in worker's wages.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:36 am
by TDub
I thought you didnt want to focus on the CEO salaries.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:37 am
by TDub
If you think the realistic solution is to take pay from CEOs to fund the increased minimum wage then AOC is your candidate.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:40 am
by TDub
Or maybe we should disperse all salaries equivalently... ...
Higher minimum wage will jumpstart unsustainable inflation, followed by stagflation and eventually a substantial recession.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:40 am
by TDub
Equally not equivalently
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:47 am
by Deleted User 89
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:25 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:14 am
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:36 am
Also, do you really think the teenage employee at the froyo shop who spends 92% of their day on Facebook deserves $15/hr? Most working class - laborer types (non union) non minimum wage employees are making 16-22 an hour. That's who you're hurting with this push for justice.
How about when the CEO is making hundreds of times as much as that?
(and let’s not even get started about how much the CEO of Facebook makes...)
CEO salaries are not what were talking about here. That is driven by the consumeristic nature of society. That's capitalism.
eh
that's greed
