This Team

[pdub]

And I'm not sure what percentage of blame he deserves for De Sousa.

I think a good amount of the percentage.
Either he knew and was involved in the process ( 100% blame ).
He knew about the process and turned a blind eye ( 85% blame ).
Or he didn't know but didn't do his homework ( 51% blame ).

Well, with De Sousa suspended and Dok out...Why hasn't McCormack been brought along to the point where he could be counted on for 10-15 mpg?

How much of that is on McCormack and how much is on the staff?

45% McCormack.
55% staff.

[holidaysmore]

There is still time for the light to come on for Dave a la SdS last year. Because there isn't much else to grasp on to I'm going to hold on to that.

[ousdahl]

maybe i’m wrong, but it seemed like everyone’s focus and intensity took a hit when Vick was reinserted

I noticed this too, and it's what prompted my call to bench him.

we looked so much better in the first half without him. Then he comes in second half, does some bonehead stuff, and instead of getting pulled we ride him, and the whole team seems to take a step back, on both ends.

He failed the eye test, and the numbers back it up too.

so I dunno how much of calling to bench him is just scapegoating, or cuz we just don't seem to play as well with him in there even if he is the best shooter.

[Deleted User 89]

I don’t recall this much unified blame on one guy since Elijah or Tharpe and those dudes were worse than Vick.

tharpe, yes

i'd trade vick for elijah in a heartbeat (nut-tap aside)

[ousdahl]

^^^
Elijah was a really good scorer. He just wasn't much of a point guard. And bear in mind, his senior year the only point guard he had to play alongside was Tharpe.

[ousdahl]

perhaps the most painful thing about Vick was in the second half when the announcers comment about him, the camera pans over to him on the bench.

But instead of him paying attention and exhibiting focus on the game, he's visibly checked out chewing on his fingernails with his eyes wandering every which way.

[PhDhawk]

I think a good amount of the percentage.
Either he knew and was involved in the process ( 100% blame ).
He knew about the process and turned a blind eye ( 85% blame ).
Or he didn't know but didn't do his homework ( 51% blame ).

Well, with De Sousa suspended and Dok out...Why hasn't McCormack been brought along to the point where he could be counted on for 10-15 mpg?

How much of that is on McCormack and how much is on the staff?

Not many big post guys come in ready to play for Self. They are more of 3-4 year guys. Especially with Dok and SDS stuff happening in the thick of the season, it's really tough to get him time in practice and whatnot. Practice times/days are so limited during the season. Mainly walkthrough type of stuff.

Right.

And that's a problem, especially in the OAD era.

It might be time to adjust what we do.

[PhDhawk]

maybe i’m wrong, but it seemed like everyone’s focus and intensity took a hit when Vick was reinserted

I noticed this too, and it's what prompted my call to bench him.

we looked so much better in the first half without him. Then he comes in second half, does some bonehead stuff, and instead of getting pulled we ride him, and the whole team seems to take a step back, on both ends.

He failed the eye test, and the numbers back it up too.

so I dunno how much of calling to bench him is just scapegoating, or cuz we just don't seem to play as well with him in there even if he is the best shooter.

Sorry, but if the other 4 guys on the court played worse when Vick was in, that's on the other 4 guys.

[ousdahl]

so much for senior leadership.

[Deleted User 89]

perhaps the most painful thing about Vick was in the second half when the announcers comment about him, the camera pans over to him on the bench.

But instead of him paying attention and exhibiting focus on the game, he's visibly checked out chewing on his fingernails with his eyes wandering every which way.

was watching the game with my folks and made that exact comment when it happened

[PhDhawk]

perhaps the most painful thing about Vick was in the second half when the announcers comment about him, the camera pans over to him on the bench.

But instead of him paying attention and exhibiting focus on the game, he's visibly checked out chewing on his fingernails with his eyes wandering every which way.

I didn't know you were a body language expert.

It's not possible that he was anxious to get back in the game and prove himself? He was checked out, but not literally chomping at the bit to get in?

I love all the, "he didn't look the way I wanted him to look, so it's a problem" takes.

[pdub]

9.9 PPG, 38% FG, 33% 3FG, 3.1 TO/PG.
Game log first 10 games B12 season.

12 points, 4-10. 6 points, 2-6. 8 points. 8 points, 4-8. 6 points, 1-11. 9 points, 3-10. 10 points, 3-8. 5 points, 1-6. 12 points, 5-10. 10 points, 5-9. 7 points, 2-5.

OK.
Really good scorer.
Trade him for Vick.

[Deleted User 75]

No complaints about DMac. He wasn't supposed to be a factor this year if Dok was healthy.

I agree with your take. He should have been 5th on the depth chart.

But should he really be given a free pass? He's a McD's AA and top 30 recruit. He didn't even play in the game yesterday and that's with Dok out, no SDS, Garrett hurt, Mitch as the only other big, and we played 2 bigs a lot of the time.

I'm not giving him a free pass based solely on him alone....he gets a free pass because we know Self's track record and more times than not freshman bigs struggle. My expectations for him this year were 0. Self often has trouble getting freshman bigs to a point where he's (self) comfortable with putting them out there in important games. That's on Self..he's had over a decade to adjust and learn also. He's made little improvement in his ability to get freshman bigs up to speed during their freshman years. DMac is 1 of our 4 or 5 most "talented" players on this roster and he's hardly playing at all even though we've got no Dok and no SDS.

Can't play small ball without shooters. That's on Self too.


Also, didn't respond directly to it above, but you're absolutely right. Without Dok we were doomed. Dedric may put up better numbers but I'm fully convinced that Dok is/was our best player. He's imposing offensively and defensively. Without him we have no intimidating players and no "power". He's a huge loss and we're not going to be able to recover from it and transform into something else. We're just going to have to fight and grit and grind our way to the finish line.

[Deleted User 89]

maybe i’m wrong, but it seemed like everyone’s focus and intensity took a hit when Vick was reinserted

I noticed this too, and it's what prompted my call to bench him.

we looked so much better in the first half without him. Then he comes in second half, does some bonehead stuff, and instead of getting pulled we ride him, and the whole team seems to take a step back, on both ends.

He failed the eye test, and the numbers back it up too.

so I dunno how much of calling to bench him is just scapegoating, or cuz we just don't seem to play as well with him in there even if he is the best shooter.

Sorry, but if the other 4 guys on the court played worse when Vick was in, that's on the other 4 guys.

true, but team-wide it's got to be a difficult situation when you never know what kind of production someone is going to have. these guys have played together enough that they SHOULD know each other's roles and what to expect their teammates to do. can't do that with vick, and the others are obviously not far enough along to make up for it

[TDub]

Who is saying they wouldnt trade elijah for Vick? Give me EJ every damn day. This is the most frustrating team ive watched since i started watching Kansas which was avout 1986 as best as i can remember. I watched them before that but dont remember the first few years on this planet.

Most of my frustration stems from a perceieved lack of fire, desire, effort, and general lack of interest from some of the important pieces of the team. Not necessarily from the results. Even in our wins *tex tech aside* we looked partially disengaged.

[Deleted User 89]

perhaps the most painful thing about Vick was in the second half when the announcers comment about him, the camera pans over to him on the bench.

But instead of him paying attention and exhibiting focus on the game, he's visibly checked out chewing on his fingernails with his eyes wandering every which way.

I didn't know you were a body language expert.

It's not possible that he was anxious to get back in the game and prove himself? He was checked out, but not literally chomping at the bit to get in?

I love all the, "he didn't look the way I wanted him to look, so it's a problem" takes.

to me, he didn't look engaged or in the moment at any point last night...just seemed to be going through the motions

[MICHHAWK]

We're just going to have to fight and grit and grind our way to the finish line.

That's going to be a problem. Because since the calendar flipped, this team has exhibited zero testicular fortitude. This bunch ain't gonna grit their way to nothing.

[Deleted User 183]

Perhaps he was thinking about how if he's not playing and proving himself he's pretty much fucked when it comes to his NBA future - and thinking maybe I shouldn't have come back to Kansas?
Or maybe he was thinking he needs to trim his pubes. Who the fuck knows?
What I do know is he is an enigma.

[pdub]

Save for the 39 point performance, Elijah was pretty meh his senior year.
Here's how he followed that classic up with.
12 points, 4-8.
7 points, 3-8.
10 points, 3-13.
4 points, 2-6.
14 points, 4-12.
9 points, 3-9.
5 points, 1-6.
5 points, 1-6.
13 points, 4-8. Nut tap. 5 turnovers. 2 or 3 of them in the final minutes. Passes up a tying shot to give it to Naadir Tharpe.

Shoots 32% from the field, 8.7 PPG.
Trade him for Vick.

[PhDhawk]

true, but team-wide it's got to be a difficult situation when you never know what kind of production someone is going to have. these guys have played together enough that they SHOULD know each other's roles and what to expect their teammates to do. can't do that with vick, and the others are obviously not far enough along to make up for it

Vick is not the only player who goes through ups and downs. Consistent guys are more the exception than they are the rule.

Graham had back to back 35 point games last year and followed it up with a 3 point night.

Here's a stretch of Svi's scoring output in games last season: 7, 24, 24, 22, 17, 1, 2, 10, 9, 16

Here's some of Newman's consecutive scoring nights: 17, 2, 8, 13, 0, 14, 7, 13, 9, 1, 27, 7, 9, 24