Kansas Crimson

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:25 pm I think both arguments are somewhat correct here.

I can't really sit here with a straight face when people say we don't have talent. Pooka is all conference level, and Gardner is going to be really good. We have a stable of WRs that are legitimate Big12 guys, (Robinson, Charlot, Parchment, and Lassiter). Stanley, is hot or cold but when he's hot he's a good Big12 QB. Our O-Line has a couple good guys, we need to improve there. Same with D-Line. We have some decent LBs but they're mostly young and undersized...which doesn't help the limited D-Line at all, but our Secondary is legit.

What we lack is depth of talent on our two-deep. We have a couple holes where we need better guys, but not most positions. We can't afford injuries, and we might get worn out...I think that's what we saw on Saturday.

But we have way more than enough talent to beat CC. We should have been more competitive against TCU, KSU, and OSU. We might not have the rosters to win those three conference games, but we are better than what we showed.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:35 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:25 pm I think both arguments are somewhat correct here.

I can't really sit here with a straight face when people say we don't have talent. Pooka is all conference level, and Gardner is going to be really good. We have a stable of WRs that are legitimate Big12 guys, (Robinson, Charlot, Parchment, and Lassiter). Stanley, is hot or cold but when he's hot he's a good Big12 QB. Our O-Line has a couple good guys, we need to improve there. Same with D-Line. We have some decent LBs but they're mostly young and undersized...which doesn't help the limited D-Line at all, but our Secondary is legit.

What we lack is depth of talent on our two-deep. We have a couple holes where we need better guys, but not most positions. We can't afford injuries, and we might get worn out...I think that's what we saw on Saturday.

But we have way more than enough talent to beat CC. We should have been more competitive against TCU, KSU, and OSU. We might not have the rosters to win those three conference games, but we are better than what we showed.

I think you contradicted yourself. Your analysis of the roster is pretty spot on, although I hesitate to say a team has talent because of decent guys at the skill positions. Everyone has good guys at the skill positions, that's why an NFL roster is made up of skill position players from anywhere and everywhere.

But, you're basically saying we have some talent sprinkled in, no depth, holes and young and undersized players. We can't afford injuries (check) because we would get worn out (check).

Essentially that's a recipe for a not good team that might win some games they shouldn't (@BC, Tech), lose some games they should win (CC), and be prone to noncompetitive games (TCU, KSU, OSU).

Before the season, a general agreement that the talent signaled 2-3 wins. The season went about like I'd expected and perhaps even better given 2 P5 wins. What validates the hire is the competitiveness in 8-9 games, the recruiting trajectory, and, the big one, people actually talked about KU football this season.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:21 pm Our guys in the trenches are FCS level. Lot of them had no offers. It's a patchwork.

In college fooball, it all starts there. If you're overmatched there, a 4 TD loss is rather easy. Having Pooka Williams means so little at that point.


The whole argument is just silly and looks like an attempt to keep excited KU fans in check--a board specialty. Are we trying to say Les Miles can't coach football? LOL. That would have been valid under previous regime.

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:40 pm I certainly won't excuse some of the loses. They have been bad and pretty par the norm for KU football in general. One thing to consider here is that Les has been out of football for awhile. That has showed. Not even half way through the year you switch OCs. That has showed. KU has some good pieces, especially on the offensive side but IMO on the offensive side, especially in college it starts and ends with your QB. What KU has had at that position has been mostly poor or slightly average at best. That is Carter Stanley. Case in point against ISU in the first half. He had AP wide open on in breaking routes on two separate occasions and flat out missed the throws. That is difference between being 3-6 and 6-3.

Biggest thing, like you mentioned because of lack of scholarships is depth. They have zero. IMO there record is just about what it should. They are a team with certain guys that have very high ceilings but the overall roster is mostly devoid of talent especially at QB, o and d line.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:53 pm
We lost to KSU bad, and looked bad doing so, that wasn't about roster. Same with the OSU game.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:02 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:53 pm
We lost to KSU bad, and looked bad doing so, that wasn't about roster. Same with the OSU game.

You're absolutely crazy if you didn't think the kstate and OSU games were about the roster. They had the good 4 year seniors up front on both sides of the ball. KU has below average players.

kstate knew they could run over KU, and they did. It basically came down to kstate just whipping KUs ass up front on both sides. Skill level, KU better than kstate, worse than OSU, but line play was a significant factor in both the losses you mentioned.


We all want to see success. I think we all know we have seen progress and that winning can happen at KU. It's now a matter of when and can it be sustained.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:53 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:21 pm Our guys in the trenches are FCS level. Lot of them had no offers. It's a patchwork.

In college fooball, it all starts there. If you're overmatched there, a 4 TD loss is rather easy. Having Pooka Williams means so little at that point.


The whole argument is just silly and looks like an attempt to keep excited KU fans in check--a board specialty. Are we trying to say Les Miles can't coach football? LOL. That would have been valid under previous regime.

No argument that you have to have better Linemen to be competitive in CFB, that's a fact. And that's the area we need the most work. But we're better than FCS. You're just trying to make excuses for shitty play if that's your argument. We have a lot of work to do, but that's laughable. Adeniji could play on Sundays.

You're being really silly acting like having skill position players doesn't matter. Never heard that argument prior to it being an excuse for KU fans on this board. Chuba Hubbard is a big part of why Okie State is so good, same Duvernay at UT or Lamb at OU. Blue Blood programs wouldn't waste so much time getting blue chip WRs and RBs if it didn't matter.

It's not about the score, either, it's about how you play. We lost to OU by 25 but we looked like we belonged on the field with them. We looked like the lesser team, but we belonged. They had more better players but we looked like a Big12 team. We won't beat OU until our roster improves, we'll struggle to beat other top Big12 teams until our roster improves. I'm not arguing that.

We lost to KSU bad, and looked bad doing so, that wasn't about roster. Same with the OSU game. It's absolutely fair to criticize Miles et al. for those games and the CC game and TCU game.

If our roster was as bad as you want to make it out to be, we never would have stomped the shit out of BC on the road, we wouldn't have nearly beaten UT on the road, we wouldn't have beaten TTU.

There's nothing worse that making excuses for this team. It doesn't help to have a fanbase that wants to forgive mutliple shitty performances, or want to wait indefinitely for a turnaround.

People are already making excuses for why it's ok if we only win 3 games next season...you want to talk about taking the fun out of it or trying to keep people in check.

I like where we are and I like where we're headed, for the most part. So I'm ready to stop using excuses for this team.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:11 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:53 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:21 pm Our guys in the trenches are FCS level. Lot of them had no offers. It's a patchwork.

In college fooball, it all starts there. If you're overmatched there, a 4 TD loss is rather easy. Having Pooka Williams means so little at that point.


The whole argument is just silly and looks like an attempt to keep excited KU fans in check--a board specialty. Are we trying to say Les Miles can't coach football? LOL. That would have been valid under previous regime.

No argument that you have to have better Linemen to be competitive in CFB, that's a fact. And that's the area we need the most work. But we're better than FCS. You're just trying to make excuses for shitty play if that's your argument. We have a lot of work to do, but that's laughable. Adeniji could play on Sundays.

You're being really silly acting like having skill position players doesn't matter. Never heard that argument prior to it being an excuse for KU fans on this board. Chuba Hubbard is a big part of why Okie State is so good, same Duvernay at UT or Lamb at OU. Blue Blood programs wouldn't waste so much time getting blue chip WRs and RBs if it didn't matter.

It's not about the score, either, it's about how you play. We lost to OU by 25 but we looked like we belonged on the field with them. We looked like the lesser team, but we belonged. They had more better players but we looked like a Big12 team. We won't beat OU until our roster improves, we'll struggle to beat other top Big12 teams until our roster improves. I'm not arguing that.

We lost to KSU bad, and looked bad doing so, that wasn't about roster. Same with the OSU game. It's absolutely fair to criticize Miles et al. for those games and the CC game and TCU game.

If our roster was as bad as you want to make it out to be, we never would have stomped the shit out of BC on the road, we wouldn't have nearly beaten UT on the road, we wouldn't have beaten TTU.

There's nothing worse that making excuses for this team. It doesn't help to have a fanbase that wants to forgive mutliple shitty performances, or want to wait indefinitely for a turnaround.

People are already making excuses for why it's ok if we only win 3 games next season...you want to talk about taking the fun out of it or trying to keep people in check.

I like where we are and I like where we're headed, for the most part. So I'm ready to stop using excuses for this team.

I don't think anyone is making excuses. We are a shitty program, with a shitty team, and have had some shitty performances.

We are outmatched and we all hope it gets better.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:20 pm "People are already making excuses for why it's ok if we only win 3 games next season...you want to talk about taking the fun out of it or trying to keep people in check."

This.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:15 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:11 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:53 pm

No argument that you have to have better Linemen to be competitive in CFB, that's a fact. And that's the area we need the most work. But we're better than FCS. You're just trying to make excuses for shitty play if that's your argument. We have a lot of work to do, but that's laughable. Adeniji could play on Sundays.

You're being really silly acting like having skill position players doesn't matter. Never heard that argument prior to it being an excuse for KU fans on this board. Chuba Hubbard is a big part of why Okie State is so good, same Duvernay at UT or Lamb at OU. Blue Blood programs wouldn't waste so much time getting blue chip WRs and RBs if it didn't matter.

It's not about the score, either, it's about how you play. We lost to OU by 25 but we looked like we belonged on the field with them. We looked like the lesser team, but we belonged. They had more better players but we looked like a Big12 team. We won't beat OU until our roster improves, we'll struggle to beat other top Big12 teams until our roster improves. I'm not arguing that.

We lost to KSU bad, and looked bad doing so, that wasn't about roster. Same with the OSU game. It's absolutely fair to criticize Miles et al. for those games and the CC game and TCU game.

If our roster was as bad as you want to make it out to be, we never would have stomped the shit out of BC on the road, we wouldn't have nearly beaten UT on the road, we wouldn't have beaten TTU.

There's nothing worse that making excuses for this team. It doesn't help to have a fanbase that wants to forgive mutliple shitty performances, or want to wait indefinitely for a turnaround.

People are already making excuses for why it's ok if we only win 3 games next season...you want to talk about taking the fun out of it or trying to keep people in check.

I like where we are and I like where we're headed, for the most part. So I'm ready to stop using excuses for this team.

I don't think anyone is making excuses. We are a shitty program, with a shitty team, and have had some shitty performances.

We are outmatched and we all hope it gets better.

See, that seems like the pessimist approach to me.

I see the BC game, the UT game, the TTU game, hell even the ISU and OU games and it gives me hope.

But then it makes me scratch my head about KSU, OSU, etc.

Obviously we've had some games where we played above and below what you'd expect. Saturday may have been the closest to where we actually are, which to me means, we're a recruiting cycle away from being an average Big12 team.

ChalkRocker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:21 pm We can have a healthy convo regarding the roster, talent-levels and importance of specific positions.

Not sure some of our Big 12 brethren are fair comparos, though (think ISU, KSU), b/c they've also conquered the issue of mind-set.

Why are we competitive vs. BC on the road, but getting waxed at home to KState? I think a large part of it has to do with persuading the players that they are, in fact, talented and worthy and capable of competing (like they belong on the field) even after getting down a few scores. I'm not certain they really started believing that until this season.

Understandable, given the fact that they'd come off of multi-season a**-waxings at the hands of the rest of the conny. They didn't know what they were capable of...imo, anyway.