ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:43 pm
lobster, be aware you seem to have changed. You were never so radial in your beliefs.
I'm not trying to insult. I mean it only as a matter of fact.
It's a bummer, man, cuz you used to be a lot more fun.
I dunno. He competely and totally lost his shit over tow truck drivers doing their jobs and inmediately codemned the entire profession. Years ago. Not a ton has changed. He used to hide behind his ignorance, now he is empowered by it.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 pm
by Deleted User 310
Ousdahl likes mene quotes and i just saw a good one....
If "all lives matter" then why aren't you mad too?
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:33 pm
by PhDhawk
Walrus wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:38 pm
When people run away because they can't answer a question, it shows you lost.
Anyway, you all enjoy your weekend. I'm off to enjoy the weather.
Fyp
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:23 pm
by ousdahl
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 pm
Ousdahl likes mene quotes and i just saw a good one....
If "all lives matter" then why aren't you mad too?
Ohh I do.
And ohhhh that’s a good one.
Is that the one with the real housewife yelling at the cat?
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:27 am
by ousdahl
just finished reading the criminal complaint.
The first victim (who threw the bag) died of several gunshot wounds, including one to the back.
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:43 pm
lobster, be aware you seem to have changed. You were never so radial in your beliefs.
I'm not trying to insult. I mean it only as a matter of fact.
It's a bummer, man, cuz you used to be a lot more fun.
I dunno. He competely and totally lost his shit over tow truck drivers doing their jobs and inmediately codemned the entire profession. Years ago. Not a ton has changed. He used to hide behind his ignorance, now he is empowered by it.
I liked him better when he was clipping off the nards of our opponent's mascot.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:24 pm
by Deleted User 310
ousdahl wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:27 am
just finished reading the criminal complaint.
The first victim (who threw the bag) died of several gunshot wounds, including one to the back.
How is that self-defense?
I saw explicit video of that guy up close. Very disturbing. Shot thru the side of his head.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:35 pm
by ousdahl
The legal arguments intrigue me. Been reading more and more.
Wisconsin’s self-defense law seems a little vague, compared to others who might have a clearer threshold of elements to meet. The state also doesn’t have a “stand your ground” law.
If I’m the defense I’m arguing self-defense, obviously, and trying to prove that Kyle was just trying to prevent further harm from the protestors who instigated.
If I’m the prosecutor, I’d argue that a kid can’t use an unlawful weapon for self defense. He was also unlawfully out after curfew, but I dunno how much weight that carries. If those things DO hold water, can one claim self-defense despite that? If he wasn’t breaking curfew AND unlawfully possessing a gun, none of the other shit would have happened. Can one acting unlawfully claim he was acting lawfully despite that?
Self-defense often considers whether the force used was “reasonable,” and I would argue an assault rifle is an unreasonable force in response to things like skateboards and grocery bags.
But yeah, a lot depends on the initial confontation. I also wonder how much bearing the first shooting has on the subsequent ones. Could he get away with a claim of self-defense in one but not the other? If the first shooting is found to be murder, can the fleeing perpetrator even claim self-defense after that? If the first shooting was self defense, could the subsequent shootings still be murder?
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:56 pm
by Deleted User 310
ousdahl wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:35 pm
The legal arguments intrigue me. Been reading more and more.
Wisconsin’s self-defense law seems a little vague, compared to others who might have a clearer threshold of elements to meet. The state also doesn’t have a “stand your ground” law.
If I’m the defense I’m arguing self-defense, obviously, and trying to prove that Kyle was just trying to prevent further harm from the protestors who instigated.
If I’m the prosecutor, I’d argue that a kid can’t use an unlawful weapon for self defense. He was also unlawfully out after curfew, but I dunno how much weight that carries. If those things DO hold water, can one claim self-defense despite that? If he wasn’t breaking curfew AND unlawfully possessing a gun, none of the other shit would have happened. Can one acting unlawfully claim he was acting lawfully despite that?
Self-defense often considers whether the force used was “reasonable,” and I would argue an assault rifle is an unreasonable force in response to things like skateboards and grocery bags.
But yeah, a lot depends on the initial confontation. I also wonder how much bearing the first shooting has on the subsequent ones. Could he get away with a claim of self-defense in one but not the other? If the first shooting is found to be murder, can the fleeing perpetrator even claim self-defense after that? If the first shooting was self defense, could the subsequent shootings still be murder?
Timeline is a little more clear now.
After seeing a little more lengthy video that was totally uncensored I dont see how the first killing isnt murder. The guy threw something at him, he sort of panics trying to get away running around a car and shoots dude in the head/back
The 2nd killing is a little more dicey. A skateboard is just as deadly as a baseball bat and i am pretty sure if someone attacks you with a baseball bat you can shoot them....but since this was AFTER the first killing the guy with the skateboard was trying to save others so i dont see how this isnt murder also.
I dont think the unlawful possession of a weapon or curfew means he is automatically guilty of murder. I think those would be separate charges. Plus curfew is like a ticket in most places.
My guess: guilty of murder x2 and attempted murder for the other guy he shot.
Prettt fucked up. What an idiot. Just took 2 people's life (dont care if they were questionable people), and ruined the rest of his life.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:20 pm
by sdoyel
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 pm
by ousdahl
Ugh, I feel weird asking but, where’s the vid of the first shooting? I’ve seen a couple, but from a distance on the other side of the road or lot.
But heck, your account sounds egregious. (ETA responding to illy.) Shot in the back while running off sounds hardly like it’ll satisfy the “imminent threat of death or great bodily harm” sort of language in self defense laws. It’d be one thing if someone was wailing on him and he had to shoot to get the guy off him. But shot in the back while fleeing? Jesus.
I don’t think unlawful possession or curfew violation means he’s automatically guilty of murder, but it MAY mean that someone already engaging in unlawful behavior cannot lawfully claim self-defense after the fact. I dunno.
Heck, isn’t imposing curfew precisely to prevent shit like this? None of this would have happened if he wasn’t breaking curfew. If prosecutors can get any leverage from that, why shouldn’t they.
Man, since leaving the office of speaker, Paul Ryan really let himself go.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:32 pm
by Deleted User 310
ousdahl wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 pm
Ugh, I feel weird asking but, where’s the vid of the first shooting? I’ve seen a couple, but from a distance on the other side of the road or lot.
But heck, your account sounds egregious. Shot in the back while running off sounds hardly like it’ll satisfy the “imminent threat of death or great bodily harm” sort of language in self defense laws. It’d be one thing if someone was wailing on him and he had to shoot to get the guy off him. But shot in the back while fleeing? Jesus.
I don’t think unlawful possession or curfew violation means he’s automatically guilty of murder, but it MAY mean that someone already engaging in unlawful behavior cannot lawfully claim self-defense after the fact. I dunno.
Heck, isn’t imposing curfew precisely to prevent shit like this? None of this would have happened if he wasn’t breaking curfew. If prosecutors can get any leverage from that, why shouldn’t they.
I saw it on facebook. You cant see him shoot him, you can only see him (the shooter) running around the car and hear the shots as he is sort of running away from the guy he shot ((cant tell if the guy (who got shot/died) was chasing him (the shooter) or not due to darkness, but i dont think he (the guy who got shot/died) was running away fwiw...sorry my original comment wasnt clear on who was running around the car/away))...then the person with the camera walks up and stands over the guy shot in the head while they try to apply pressure to the wound and he starts bleeding out of his nose and gurgling. It is pretty graphic. I was going to link it here last night but it was bad enough i didnt think i should. If i can find it again i will message you the link, but i think it got removed.
In my uneducated opinion iirc typically self defense trumps any of those other things....but doesnt mean you cant get in trouble for the other things. I just dont think it nullifies self defense/ability to protect yourself.
It isnt going to matter much. There will be no defense to this that gets him a not guilty verdict. I think there is a decent chance he will plead guilty for a lighter sentence. Kid probably deserves to die in prison imo.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:40 pm
by Deleted User 310
This is allegedly the kyle kid from who knows how long ago...beating up a girl. Stand up guy, right Tucker? (eye roll)...
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:52 pm
by sdoyel
Stumbled onto a video of this on FB today.
This kind of shit is just bizarre and completely unnecessary to me.
While i agree that whites do get treated better....lets not vilify good/well trained cops for not shooting people who dont deserve it (the objective isnt for them to start killing more white people, it is to stop killing black people unless it is truly deserved). There are white people who are killed unnecessarily too...i suggest watching the video from a few years ago where a cop shoots a white person in the head while he is on his knees crawling towards the office (crying/begging for his life) in a hotel hallway.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:06 am
by Deleted User 289
President Trump is planning on going to Kenosha on Tuesday. Why?
Seems obvious to me if Kenosha was in California there is zero chance he would be going to Kenosha.
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:20 am
by ousdahl
Shooting homocide in Portland last night.
Sounds like it’s between protestors and some pro-Trump counterprotestors, but not yet sure who’s the victim and who’s the perp
Re: Kenosha
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:21 am
by ousdahl
Not the shooting, but a video of the pro-Trump 4x4 parade in Portland
