Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:48 pm The fault is not the play call, at all, by any means, it was absolutely the right thing to do.
The fault is CEH not securing the ball.

Agreed.

The fuck up was the fumble. Not the play call imo.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:52 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:25 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:09 am They were in field goal range with a minute left.

A run play to burn clock and also maybe get a couple more yards usually isn’t high risk, but go figure it’s the Cajun dood’s first fumble ever

1:20 and 2nd and 3 from the 32.
That's a what, 49 yard field goal which is in Butker's range.
A run of even no gain might force Balty to use their last timeout - and you still have 3rd and 3 to figure out what to do. A run of 3 yards gets you a first down, complete control of the last moments, and comfortably in Butker's range.

49 is within his range, but that's by no means close enough to give up on trying to get closer, especially when a miss means you lose. Not when you've literally got the best quarterback ever to get you closer or to the end zone.

It was second down. They weren't done trying to move the ball closer. I am betting they felt confident at the time that they could gain 3 yards on two running plays and get a new set of downs to continue to move the ball.

not to mention the most efficient.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:04 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:52 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:25 am

1:20 and 2nd and 3 from the 32.
That's a what, 49 yard field goal which is in Butker's range.
A run of even no gain might force Balty to use their last timeout - and you still have 3rd and 3 to figure out what to do. A run of 3 yards gets you a first down, complete control of the last moments, and comfortably in Butker's range.

49 is within his range, but that's by no means close enough to give up on trying to get closer, especially when a miss means you lose. Not when you've literally got the best quarterback ever to get you closer or to the end zone.

It was second down. They weren't done trying to move the ball closer. I am betting they felt confident at the time that they could gain 3 yards on two running plays and get a new set of downs to continue to move the ball.

IDK, just as a football fan, this makes it sound like a dumb decision. You want to move the ball down the field and the first down, so you decide to have Mahomes turn around and hand the ball off 2x in a row to a back that's not a goal line back?

Butker is 18-20 from 40-49 yards in the last 2 years.
You have around a 90% chance of winning.
It was the right call.

Much like prevent defense prevents you from winning the game, conservative offense will lose you more games than win.

Reid went conservative.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:17 pm Much like prevent defense prevents you from winning the game, conservative offense will lose you more games than win.

Reid went conservative.

I think you can live with either decision and conventional is easy to defend.

But, the taste in the fans' mouth after a CEH fumble is a lot worse than if Mahomes threw 2 incomplete passes and allowed BAL to have a last drive.

Reid has always been somewhat conservative. No complaints when that method won the super bowl and got us to a 2nd one.

It's week 2. 1 game. 1 fumble. He doesn't fumble we likely make the FG and win the game and then we are talking about our chances at an undefeated season today.

Here's the thing. I'm not that upset they ran the ball. That's his first fumble in years. But that's if you don't have Patrick Mahomes. Much like when Green Bay went conservative in the NFC Championship game last year.

If you have the best of the best at a position. Give them the ball. That's Mahomes, Kelce is the best TE and Hill is a top 5 WR. Let them work.

It would be one thing if CEH was averaging 6 yards a carry last night and the o-line had been dominating in run blocking. That play also looked very similar to the block that Creed whiffed on to get CEH a 5 yard loss earlier.
I don't get how coaches try and screw up something that seems so simple to me. Why go away from something that had just previously worked. Go to it over and over again until they can prove they can stop it.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:17 pm Much like prevent defense prevents you from winning the game, conservative offense will lose you more games than win.

Reid went conservative.

100% false.

Go add up the number of games the Chiefs have won with a FG in the last KC offensive drive of a game in the last three seasons and then add up the number of games the Chiefs lost trying to get in position for a GW FG but had a turnover that resulted in a loss. I think we all know which number will be bigger.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:19 pm

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:17 pm Much like prevent defense prevents you from winning the game, conservative offense will lose you more games than win.

Reid went conservative.

I think you can live with either decision and conventional is easy to defend.

But, the taste in the fans' mouth after a CEH fumble is a lot worse than if Mahomes threw 2 incomplete passes and allowed BAL to have a last drive.

100% agreed. CEH is on some people's shit list because he hasn't been what they hoped he would be so it's way easier to chalk it up as a dumb decision to trust him. Imagine if Hardman had fumbled, an angry mob may have run him out of town. But coaches aren't so irrational.

It's a bummer that KC made so many bad plays that they lost the game. The defense was awful. Mahomes had an awful INT. CEH fumbled. A lot of things had to go poorly to lose that game and they did. We had similar games and went on to win the Super Bowl so I am totally unconcerned about the impact of this.

i’ll admit to not watching, but just based on what is being said here it seems that Reid and company fell victim to playing not to loose vs. playing to win...which is ok, generally. it just came back to bite them in this case

But Reid was playing to win.
A run on 2nd and 3 is "conservative" but really not all THAT "conservative" given the down, time on the clock, timeouts Baltimore had and accuracy of your field goal kicker from 40-49 yards.

You want to get Baltimore to burn the timeout and then you can manage the clock down to four seconds and kick a field goal to win - putting the game completely out of Baltimore's hands.

Also, it may not have mattered, but it should have been 2nd and 18 with 8 minutes left with the Ravens down 35-30 on the Ravens 45 instead of 1st and 10 from the KC 39 due to a bewildering penalty v Mathieu.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:03 pm But Reid was playing to win.
A run on 2nd and 3 is "conservative" but really not all THAT "conservative" given the down, time on the clock, timeouts Baltimore had and accuracy of your field goal kicker from 40-49 yards.

You want to get Baltimore to burn the timeout and then you can manage the clock down to four seconds and kick a field goal to win - putting the game completely out of Baltimore's hands.

i kind of agree, and maybe my description doesn’t necessarily fit

it was the conservative play, and usually works...it just didn’t this time so monday morning QBs are having a field day

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:10 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:03 pm But Reid was playing to win.
A run on 2nd and 3 is "conservative" but really not all THAT "conservative" given the down, time on the clock, timeouts Baltimore had and accuracy of your field goal kicker from 40-49 yards.

You want to get Baltimore to burn the timeout and then you can manage the clock down to four seconds and kick a field goal to win - putting the game completely out of Baltimore's hands.

i kind of agree, and maybe my description doesn’t necessarily fit

it was the conservative play, and usually works...it just didn’t this time so monday morning QBs are having a field day

Yes.
I see why they want the ball in Mahomes hands if the game is in jeopardy but already had been -- and then it quickly wasn't.
He had marched them down to field goal range and now you want to control the clock/game to your advantage. A run was a good call. The running back needs to protect it in that situation more than worrying about breaking tackles/getting a first down.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:10 pm Also, it may not have mattered, but it should have been 2nd and 18 with 8 minutes left with the Ravens down 35-30 on the Ravens 45 instead of 1st and 10 from the KC 39 due to a bewildering penalty v Mathieu.

Agreed. There were a few other questionable calls that didnt go our way as well. Like I said, a lot of things all had to go wrong for us to lose this game by one point on the road to a likely playoff team with a former MVP at QB. Those calling for heads are just venting.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:12 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:10 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:03 pm But Reid was playing to win.
A run on 2nd and 3 is "conservative" but really not all THAT "conservative" given the down, time on the clock, timeouts Baltimore had and accuracy of your field goal kicker from 40-49 yards.

You want to get Baltimore to burn the timeout and then you can manage the clock down to four seconds and kick a field goal to win - putting the game completely out of Baltimore's hands.

i kind of agree, and maybe my description doesn’t necessarily fit

it was the conservative play, and usually works...it just didn’t this time so monday morning QBs are having a field day

Yes.
I see why they want the ball in Mahomes hands if the game is in jeopardy but already had been -- and then it quickly wasn't.
He had marched them down to field goal range and now you want to control the clock/game to your advantage. A run was a good call. The running back needs to protect it in that situation more than worrying about breaking tackles/getting a first down.

personally, i like the idea of taking a shot at the end zone versus maaaaybe 3 more yards on the ground

but, hindsight...

I would not take a shot at the end zone down 1 point with 1:20 left and Baltimore with a timeout left. They were gashing us. Take the ball out of Lamar's hands completely.

Some sort of short play to Kelce or away from Hill ( since he was covered ) would have been reasonable but then, if dropped/incomplete, you're stopping the clock for Baltimore.