Kansas Crimson

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:28 am I can't get over what a racket health insurance is, too.

For a healthy young adult who prob doesn't even go to the doctor beyond a periodical routine checkup, it's often well over $500 a month, right? And that's JUST the premium. That's not to mention deductibles often in the $5000+ range anyway. And if, heaven forbid, you get sick or hurt, you still have to worry about being in the right network, or worry about mystery bills from some specialist, or worry about your insurance company generally coming up with reasons not to cover you anyway.

landlords are a racket too, but at least you're getting something tangible in return, in the form of a roof over your head every month you pay, right? Health insurance is an expense that, in many ways, you're never gonna see again.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:22 am but let's go full Qusdahl! Wasn't the first country to offer comprehensive universal healthcare to its citizens the Soviets? And the "employer-provided" bullshit was our own capitalist-controlled country's response to keeping up with the joneses...so, rather than just come out and admit maybe the commies had a good idea about something after all, we instead made it about "if you wanna go to the doctor then you better fucking be employed...and employed in the right kind of work, in an industry that isn't gonna tell you don't deserve the benefit of going to a doctor.

...but at least I bet those healthcare execs have nice vacation homes?

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:25 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:22 am but let's go full Qusdahl! Wasn't the first country to offer comprehensive universal healthcare to its citizens the Soviets? And the "employer-provided" bullshit was our own capitalist-controlled country's response to keeping up with the joneses...so, rather than just come out and admit maybe the commies had a good idea about something after all, we instead made it about "if you wanna go to the doctor then you better fucking be employed...and employed in the right kind of work, in an industry that isn't gonna tell you don't deserve the benefit of going to a doctor.

...but at least I bet those healthcare execs have nice vacation homes?

I don’t think it was response to the Soviets. I think it was that unions negotiated a perk that employers paid healthcare costs. In the early days most were “self-insured”. In fact I remember that my first industrial job in 1994 with a large pharma company came with healthcare that was from the company, and not through a health insurance provider. They switched a couple of years later.

Back to the original point. Once union shops were providing that perk other employers, first the non-union workers within the same company, then everywhere else, had to provide that perk to stay competitive. The inevitable breakdown happened when employers started outsourcing health insurance to for-profit outfits. As expected profit outweighed everything and we are where we are.

DrPepper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:59 am I assume the dead part of infant mortality rate in the US is about the mothers with no or little regular good health care options. Stuff like healthcare desserts, homeless, addicted, working poor, etc.

Sometimes rocketing healthcare costs have to do with the competition to get customers. I went in to get a routine day surgery procedure once and it was supposed to be the latest, laser, one-hole, whatever. Well, there I was in the gown and there was a backlog and it took extra people or something. So I was given the option to go the old-fashioned route which was cheaper and actually had a lower risk of infection (or something, I don't quite recall). I said, sure. They just had the latest greatest multi-million dollar gadget so that they could keep up with the other hospitals in the area. Like maternity areas that look like 5-star hotels.

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:00 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:25 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:22 am but let's go full Qusdahl! Wasn't the first country to offer comprehensive universal healthcare to its citizens the Soviets? And the "employer-provided" bullshit was our own capitalist-controlled country's response to keeping up with the joneses...so, rather than just come out and admit maybe the commies had a good idea about something after all, we instead made it about "if you wanna go to the doctor then you better fucking be employed...and employed in the right kind of work, in an industry that isn't gonna tell you don't deserve the benefit of going to a doctor.

...but at least I bet those healthcare execs have nice vacation homes?

I don’t think it was response to the Soviets. I think it was that unions negotiated a perk that employers paid healthcare costs. In the early days most were “self-insured”. In fact I remember that my first industrial job in 1994 with a large pharma company came with healthcare that was from the company, and not through a health insurance provider. They switched a couple of years later.

Back to the original point. Once union shops were providing that perk other employers, first the non-union workers within the same company, then everywhere else, had to provide that perk to stay competitive. The inevitable breakdown happened when employers started outsourcing health insurance to for-profit outfits. As expected profit outweighed everything and we are where we are.

The US Government passed what was called the Stabilization Act in 1942 that basically froze in place the prices, wages and salaries that could be offered as a means to fight inflation during WWII. In response, companies began to offer benefits such as employee-provided health insurance to compete for the shrinking pool of workers as millions went off to fight in the war.

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:23 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:00 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:25 pm

I don’t think it was response to the Soviets. I think it was that unions negotiated a perk that employers paid healthcare costs. In the early days most were “self-insured”. In fact I remember that my first industrial job in 1994 with a large pharma company came with healthcare that was from the company, and not through a health insurance provider. They switched a couple of years later.

Back to the original point. Once union shops were providing that perk other employers, first the non-union workers within the same company, then everywhere else, had to provide that perk to stay competitive. The inevitable breakdown happened when employers started outsourcing health insurance to for-profit outfits. As expected profit outweighed everything and we are where we are.

The US Government passed what was called the Stabilization Act in 1942 that basically froze in place the prices, wages and salaries that could be offered as a means to fight inflation during WWII. In response, companies began to offer benefits such as employee-provided health insurance to compete for the shrinking pool of workers as millions went off to fight in the war.

Forgot about the Stabilization Act! Employer provided healthcare is itself a result of companies taking advantage of a loophole. How poetic!!

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:04 pm

DrPepper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:59 am I assume the dead part of infant mortality rate in the US is about the mothers with no or little regular good health care options. Stuff like healthcare desserts, homeless, addicted, working poor, etc.

Sometimes rocketing healthcare costs have to do with the competition to get customers. I went in to get a routine day surgery procedure once and it was supposed to be the latest, laser, one-hole, whatever. Well, there I was in the gown and there was a backlog and it took extra people or something. So I was given the option to go the old-fashioned route which was cheaper and actually had a lower risk of infection (or something, I don't quite recall). I said, sure. They just had the latest greatest multi-million dollar gadget so that they could keep up with the other hospitals in the area. Like maternity areas that look like 5-star hotels.

Agreed. Break those maternal and infant mortality rates down by race/income levels and you will quickly see that it isn't just a "our healthcare system sucks" problem. Then factor in again a huge distrust of the health care industry and the government by african americans after the 40 year long Tuskegee Syphilis Study as well as the decades of policies and laws that have made it more difficult for minorities to gain and accumulate wealth and we are where we are.

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/6 ... GGSLRBV4ZA

DrPepper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:20 pm You know how college athletes were suing the D1 schools for not giving them an education (giving them sham classes instead)? Can I sue my K-12 KS public education for not teaching me any thing but a whitened version of history?

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:48 pm if you can't afford healthcare, don't get sick.