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Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm
by jfish26
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:05 pm
Re: Jalen, and illy’s 3 years comment
He’s played one full season of ball, and not even a normal season.
His first year was spent rehabbing from injury.
His second year was his only full season, and not even a normal full season cuz he still sat out cuz of a pandemic.
He’s third year so far is all of 2 games, and only one was really that bad.
Let’s not write his entire career off just yet
I'd be more optimistic if he had even average physical tools. He does not.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:04 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:01 pm
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm
I am trying to think of a recent good comp from college that was small but a big time scorer who worked out in the nba. Elite shooters can pull it off, but remy isn't really an elite outside shooter at 33.8% career average. So not a Trae Young type guy who has unlimited range.
Probably Van Vleet.
Remy's stock is rising, though, because a lot of the haters didn't think he could play next to other good teammates, and we're still fully getting there, but he's been fine there.
Ya that's probably a good one. Although he was closer to 39% in college from 3pt land (2 seasons above 40%).
We have Remy listed at 6'0 and that seems generous when he stands next to some of our guys.
I think Van Vleet's shot really improved after being in NBA.
And Remy's percentage likely suffered some percentage points because of all the forced shots on a bad team.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:08 pm
by Deleted User 863
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:05 pm
Re: Jalen, and illy’s 3 years comment
He’s played one full season of ball, and not even a normal season.
His first year was spent rehabbing from injury.
His second year was his only full season, and not even a normal full season cuz he still sat out cuz of a pandemic.
He’s third year so far is all of 2 games, and only one was really that bad.
Let’s not write his entire career off just yet
We weren't talking about his college career, so I am certainly not writing that off.
But he's not a raw inexperienced player by any means. He's had 3 years of college coaching and weight training.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:10 pm
by Deleted User 863
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm
I think Van Vleet's shot really improved after being in NBA.
He's been a huge surprise. He is putting up insane numbers this season now that Lowry is gone and Siakam has been hurt off and on.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:13 pm
by ousdahl
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:08 pm He's had 3 years of college coaching and weight training.
Not really.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:14 pm
by Deleted User 863
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:13 pm
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:08 pm He's had 3 years of college coaching and weight training.
Not really.
He arrived at KU in the summer of 2019. So is 2.5 years better for you?
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:20 pm
by ousdahl
He’s had one season of D1 ball.
Freshman year wasn’t weight training, so much as rehabbing
Sophomore year was a weird pandemic year
And 2 games in, you talk as if this season is complete.
Bear in mind, there are LOTS of guys who didn’t look like nba players until junior or senior year
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:23 pm
by pdub
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:01 pm
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:56 pm
Jalen’s got a chance, cuz he’s got the size, and got unique skills that doods his size don’t normally have, especially at this point.
At this point? He's been in college for 3 years.
Buddy Hield.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:29 pm
by Deleted User 863
pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:23 pm
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:01 pm
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:56 pm
Jalen’s got a chance, cuz he’s got the size, and got unique skills that doods his size don’t normally have, especially at this point.
At this point? He's been in college for 3 years.
Buddy Hield.
I didn't say he couldn't continue to improve. I am just saying he isn't an inexperienced player like ous tried to insinuate.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:30 pm
by pdub
Playing in actual college games means something more than practice.
It's why I eyeroll at "Ben McLemore wasnt a freshman."
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:33 pm
by Deleted User 863
And the idea that Jalen has tools guys his size don't typically have is sort of a stretch. Look at the NBA. He will probably play the same position (3 or small 4) as guys like Andrew Wiggins or marus morris. There are a lot of 6'7/6'8 guys that are fast and can dribble.
Jalen will have to improve his shooting to have a legit chance imo.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:35 pm
by Deleted User 863
pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:30 pm
Playing in actual college games means something more than practice.
It's why I eyeroll at "Ben McLemore wasnt a freshman."
For many things you're right.
But for things like understanding an offense/ball movement and team defense, those 1,000s of practice hours absolutely matter. Especially for a guy like McLemore because he wasn't hurt part of the time, he just wasn't eligible.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:38 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
I think the NBA would really expose Jalen's limitations. At his size, he's playing against the best players in the NBA. They'll be able to match his speed and won't have any issues guarding his first step and his rebounding ability gets negated by his inability to jump with those guys.
But, he has a chance to be a really good player here.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:38 pm
by Deleted User 863
I do like how Ous is all "give Jalen a break he's inexperienced and only has 1 full season of basketball and has plenty of room to improve", but is convinced he knows CBs ceiling has been reached even though they arrived to KU at the same time and 1 has shown more improvement than the other so far (i won't make him say which one).
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:39 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:35 pm
pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:30 pm
Playing in actual college games means something more than practice.
It's why I eyeroll at "Ben McLemore wasnt a freshman."
For many things you're right.
But for things like understanding an offense/ball movement and team defense, those 1,000s of practice hours absolutely matter. Especially for a guy like McLemore because he wasn't hurt part of the time, he just wasn't eligible.
It might just be semantics, but "thousands" of practice hours?
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:41 pm
by Deleted User 863
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:38 pm
I think the NBA would really expose Jalen's limitations. At his size, he's playing against the best players in the NBA. They'll be able to match his speed and won't have any issues guarding his first step and his rebounding ability gets negated by his inability to jump with those guys.
But, he has a chance to be a really good player here.
Ya. That's the position or positions where you're getting the Wiggins KDs Miles Bridges type athletes.
But like pdub said, this ain't the NBA and he has all the tools to be a great college player.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:42 pm
by pdub
They matter.
But game experience at the college level matters a lot too.
And on up the ranks.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:43 pm
by Deleted User 863
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:39 pm
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:35 pm
pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:30 pm
Playing in actual college games means something more than practice.
It's why I eyeroll at "Ben McLemore wasnt a freshman."
For many things you're right.
But for things like understanding an offense/ball movement and team defense, those 1,000s of practice hours absolutely matter. Especially for a guy like McLemore because he wasn't hurt part of the time, he just wasn't eligible.
It might just be semantics, but "thousands" of practice hours?
I mean i didn't do exact math, but maybe an average of 1.5 hours of time dedicated to basketball/working out per day over that time? That gets him close to 1,000 hours of practice since summer of 2019.
I would hope so at least.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:45 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
I thought the conversation was about how much McLemore practiced his redshirt year.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:46 pm
by Deleted User 863
pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:42 pm
They matter.
But game experience at the college level matters a lot too.
And on up the ranks.
Absolutely.
I am still not giving Jalen much of a pass for inexperience at this point. Maybe today I will go easy on him since it's his 2nd game back this season. And of course more games matters, and Och is an example of that. He looks significantly more polished than last year. So i don't think Jalen (or anyone) on our team is a finished product other than maybe Mitch.