Kansas Crimson

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:48 am The overseas route is available, as is G league. There are routes available if the players feel slighted. Sure, they come with less visibility, marketing, and usual end the career but...its there. It worked for Lamelo.

While that's all true the problem is that shoe companies, agents, college coaches, etc are ensuring college stays the most appealing route by offering those players impermissible benefits to play in college.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:20 am We're not going to agree on this. Which, is fine.

Times change. If the ncaa does not change then it's model will go the way of the rotary phone.

As someone who had to quit the amateur sport I enjoyed because I couldn't afford to be competitive at my level any more because the amateurism rules prevented me from working in my field to pay for the sport while competing against athletes from Russia whose lives were fully supported by the Russian government, I empathize with the athletes and want them to make money for their abilities.

The romantic notion of "amateurs do it for the love of the sport, not the love of money" is a farce. Yeah, I know what it was like as a kid when we all thought that was what the difference between amateur sports and pro sports was. Pros love the game as well and amateurs would still love the sport even if they received money. Paying them honestly helps keep it so that those with economic hurdles can continue to pursue their dreams. Cutting off access to money only succeeds in driving some who love the game away from it in pursuit of money.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:20 am We're not going to agree on this. Which, is fine.

Yeah, it's fine, there's definitely going to be that.

I think there is a space, though, for discussion, but it just won't get there if one side starts with "you want them to get nothing" and the other says "you think they get nothing right now."

"If KU has D3 talent, the money and exposure is not nearly the same level, which could mean we don't see it."

Not in today's age.
Not with the speed of streaming and the cost of equipment to broadcast.
You might pay more but KU has a massive alum base who would fork up to watch.

Hell, you could set a tripod up with a 500 dollar camera and stream that shit for free and it'd be better video quality then you had 10 years ago on broadcasts.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:52 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:48 am The overseas route is available, as is G league. There are routes available if the players feel slighted. Sure, they come with less visibility, marketing, and usual end the career but...its there. It worked for Lamelo.

Of course there are. But, as a KU fan, why would I not rather have RJ Hampton dunk with a KU uniform on in the Final Four?

As a CBB fan, why would I not want to see that? If I wanted to watch layups, there are dozens of NAIA schools in the area that I could go watch, but that shit's weak.

As a CBB fan, why would I want to see players coming to play because of their next pay check, when I can already watch that at the highest level in the NBA?

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:16 am Average G league salary is 35k. Id argue that the value of what the current atheletes get is more than that at Kansas.

It most definitely is.

Be honest:

How many people here watched that Wisconsin-Oshkosh vs. Swarthmore D3 championship game?

I don't care how many people watched it.
BWW Chad be damned.

If I'm a Swarthmore fan, i'm watching it.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:36 am Didn’t they pull that shut on us?

“Hypothetically, if we called this shady shoe guy who admitted in court to defrauding you a booster, just for the sake of expending this whole process, would you be willing to call him a booster?”

Hypothetically, for the sake of expediting the process, maybe we would?

“GOTCHA!”

Nobody was getting defrauded. We were getting exactly what we expected. Actually maybe a little less. We needed a few more real guys.

I hate the intellectual dishonesty we do around this part of it all.

So that FBI court case never happened then?

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:51 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:36 am Didn’t they pull that shut on us?

“Hypothetically, if we called this shady shoe guy who admitted in court to defrauding you a booster, just for the sake of expending this whole process, would you be willing to call him a booster?”

Hypothetically, for the sake of expediting the process, maybe we would?

“GOTCHA!”

Nobody was getting defrauded. We were getting exactly what we expected. Actually maybe a little less. We needed a few more real guys.

I hate the intellectual dishonesty we do around this part of it all.

Well, if you are being "intellectually honest," you would admit that this post is both right and wrong.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:48 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:52 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:48 am The overseas route is available, as is G league. There are routes available if the players feel slighted. Sure, they come with less visibility, marketing, and usual end the career but...its there. It worked for Lamelo.

Of course there are. But, as a KU fan, why would I not rather have RJ Hampton dunk with a KU uniform on in the Final Four?

As a CBB fan, why would I not want to see that? If I wanted to watch layups, there are dozens of NAIA schools in the area that I could go watch, but that shit's weak.

As a CBB fan, why would I want to see players coming to play because of their next pay check, when I can already watch that at the highest level in the NBA?

That's your assumption on why they are coming to play. If you want to be that cynical then why do you not already assume that players playing for Kansas today are only doing so because the player got more money to go there than to go to some other school? The evidence is out there to support that assumption in at least a handful of cases.

I assume players come to Kansas because they want to have the best chance to develop into NBA players possible and love the fan support and facilities. If the players start getting some legal money, they'd still be coming to Kansas for the same reasons. They'd just be paying some taxes on their basketball related income finally.

I watch pro basketball to see the sport played at the highest level.
I watch college basketball because I love the University of Kansas and it's basketball program and it reminds me of family.

I've made this analogy before but it's like that "Bar Rescue" show for me.

There's this great pub in your hood, with a 25 cent juke box, cheap beer - you've been coming here for years. The staff isn't perfect and the manager could pay them more - but it's not like their getting f'd over - and they love the environment and the people there.

Loud obnoxious guy comes in and says this needs a total re-haul. You aren't making enough money. You could pay yourself more and your employees more if you change it. Install a new digital juke box, 2 dollars a play. Let's make the menu more high end - hire a new top of the line chef - and serve more refined cocktails. There's a downtown bar that is making bank - we should model ourselves after them.

Now you probably get more customers. And you're definitely going to be making more money so your staff, new and old, will be doing better for themselves. But there will be a few loyal customers you're gonna loose - and i'd consider myself one of them.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:55 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:48 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:52 am

Of course there are. But, as a KU fan, why would I not rather have RJ Hampton dunk with a KU uniform on in the Final Four?

As a CBB fan, why would I not want to see that? If I wanted to watch layups, there are dozens of NAIA schools in the area that I could go watch, but that shit's weak.

As a CBB fan, why would I want to see players coming to play because of their next pay check, when I can already watch that at the highest level in the NBA?

That's your assumption on why they are coming to play. If you want to be that cynical then why do you not already assume that players playing for Kansas today are only doing so because the player got more money to go there than to go to some other school? The evidence is out there to support that assumption in at least a handful of cases.

I assume players come to Kansas because they want to have the best chance to develop into NBA players possible and love the fan support and facilities. If the players start getting some legal money, they'd still be coming to Kansas for the same reasons. They'd just be paying some taxes on their basketball related income finally.

I've never seen it put this way. I tend to agree.


What I do think is true is that the fans care about the KU stuff way more than the players do, and that can be a tough pill to swallow. We recruit all over the country.

That Robert guy annoys the shit outta me.

Id kick him out of the shack

"I watch college basketball because I love the University of Kansas and it's basketball program and it reminds me of family."

Me too.
But if we're eventually paying players contracts, then you'll get more of the type of guy who is looking for the next dollar, rather than actually wanting to be a part of the family.
And i'm not interested in 18-24 year olds figuring out how to make the most money instead of doing what college athletics was originally intended -- a competitive environment where you grew to become an adult and played more for the love of the game.

And yes, I'll stick to the love of the game despite a lot of the cynicism for that here.

For that analogy to work, you need to add something like, the servers are all talented, and are tempted to go work at the downtown bar cuz it pays better, and you’re trying to convince them to stay cuz you think the free app with each shift plus exposure among your clientele is worth more than just getting paid better downtown.

You don't need to add that exactly.
You could add that one of your servers is really talented and is tempted.
So then you say, well, it may be best for you to go work there.

He/she leaves and you still have a great bar.

No, youre missing rhe point. I dont care if the server goes to the bar downtown. Go.

You havent left yet.

Thats wrong. I do care. But I'm not suggesting standing in the way of professional opportunity. If thats your choice, make it. Lifes full of them, some go well, some don't.