Kansas Crimson

I'll just go on the record right now that I think this is not just an error, in the practical, political sense, but in the normative sense as well.

^^^^^ there’s a REAL gop profile in courage!

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:16 pm in this edition of GOP Profiles in Courage:

Sen. Lamar Alexander said on Thursday night that he will not vote to allow witnesses and evidence into the impeachment trial of President Trump, he announced on Thursday.

"There is no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens; the House managers have proved this with what they call a 'mountain of overwhelming evidence...'"

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/30/80143723 ... d-end-soon

Tut-tutting like this is perhaps worse than just blankly voting on party lines. Because now we're creating a record that, even if every last word of the House Managers' claims was true, the conduct they've alleged is fine.

What a terrible place to be.

I also think this greatly emboldens Trump, up to and including disregarding an unfavorable November 2020 election result. You can already see the playbook: "the dirty, do-nothing Democrats viciously and illegally interfered with your election!"

Yeah, Senator Alexander shoulda kept his mouth shut, cuz that logic is just mind-boggling.

"we've already seen so much evidence to prove the allegations that testimony is not necessary, so in conclusion let's acquit!"

and what's even more of a head scratcher is the dude is planning to retire, so it's not like he's trying to pander to the base.

but hey GOP, go ahead and keep your horse hitched tightly to that Trump wagon. It's gonna be a looong 10 months til the election.

and re: unfavorable election result, Trump has built in the excuses virtually since he started his political career.

well..not literally the moment he went on his birther crusade, but at least since he started campaigning.

I always kinda figured he ran for potus just as a publicity stunt, and never necessarily intended to be potus. Dude coulda scored a helluva media deal out of it, and still might...assuming that the moment he leaves office, however or whenever that may be, he's not promptly detained by LEO.

LOL

If only Bolton had the balls Monica did:

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:06 am Yeah, Senator Alexander shoulda kept his mouth shut, cuz that logic is just mind-boggling.

"we've already seen so much evidence to prove the allegations that testimony is not necessary, so in conclusion let's acquit!"

and what's even more of a head scratcher is the dude is planning to retire, so it's not like he's trying to pander to the base.

but hey GOP, go ahead and keep your horse hitched tightly to that Trump wagon. It's gonna be a looong 10 months til the election.

I think the retirement angle is quite a bit overestimated. These guys can make so much more money out of office than in it, and risking GOP cred comes with a very real financial cost.

Of course, I think he could have made considerable money by being a hero, but that is, or must at least appear to be, a much riskier and more challenging path.

How many times have we heard republicans say that we should "wait until the election and let the people decide"?

And yet, Trump's Ukraine scheme was a conspiracy to bribe/extort a foreign leader's help in manipulating US voters in order to improve Trump's chances in 2020, in service to himself, and not our nation.

The hypocrisy of republicans would be stunning, if it hadn't become so routine.

just imagine the relentless pursuit of justice republicans would exhibit if a dem had done it.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:03 am just imagine the relentless pursuit of justice republicans would exhibit if a dem had done it.

Had done "what" exactly?

Do you even know? Because I doubt you learned the "truth" by spending all your time watching Fox and Friends.

I've watched maybe 8hrs worth of live coverage. At times the Trump team looked silly, but there were more times where they made the Dems look silly. Which is exactly why Pelosi didn't want to go this route originally. She knew they didn't have a smoking gun to a crime and their attempt to remove him from office would fail.

Actually there’s a smoking gun and a guy standing over the body practically admitting that he did it. It’s just that one party insists that the guy who called the cops is the problem, never mind that everything that he told the cops have been independently confirmed!!

They are also arguing that murder isn’t a crime and even if it was it isn’t punishable

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:14 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:03 am just imagine the relentless pursuit of justice republicans would exhibit if a dem had done it.

Had done "what" exactly?

Do you even know? Because I doubt you learned the "truth" by spending all your time watching Fox and Friends.

Large of you to admit you have little to no idea what's going on, yet you're still magnanimous enough to share your opinion, uninformed though it is.

#solid

The So What defense looks to be successful.
Got to know your jury.

Hahaha. I don't think anyone saw this coming. (not)

Timing is everything?

If republicans don't allow witnesses and documents, i.e., coverup the information that > 70% of Americans want to see, they're going to pay a price.

drip.

drip.

drip.



More than two months before he asked Ukraine’s president to investigate his political opponents, President Trump directed John R. Bolton, then his national security adviser, to help with his pressure campaign to extract damaging information on Democrats from Ukrainian officials, according to an unpublished manuscript by Mr. Bolton.

Mr. Trump gave the instruction, Mr. Bolton wrote, during an Oval Office conversation in early May that included the acting White House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani and the White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, who is now leading the president’s impeachment defense.

Mr. Trump told Mr. Bolton to call Volodymyr Zelensky, who had recently won election as president of Ukraine, to ensure Mr. Zelensky would meet with Mr. Giuliani, who was planning a trip to Ukraine to discuss the investigations that the president sought, in Mr. Bolton’s account. Mr. Bolton never made the call, he wrote.

The previously undisclosed directive that Mr. Bolton describes would be the earliest known instance of Mr. Trump seeking to harness the power of the United States government to advance his pressure campaign against Ukraine, as he later did on the July call with Mr. Zelensky that triggered a whistle-blower complaint and impeachment proceedings. House Democrats have accused him of abusing his authority and are arguing their case before senators in the impeachment trial of Mr. Trump, whose lawyers have said he did nothing wrong.

The account in Mr. Bolton’s manuscript portrays the most senior White House advisers as early witnesses in the effort that they have sought to distance the president from. And disclosure of the meeting underscores the kind of information Democrats were looking for in seeking testimony from his top advisers in their impeachment investigation, including Mr. Bolton and Mr. Mulvaney, only to be blocked by the White House.

In a brief interview, Mr. Giuliani denied that the conversation took place and said those discussions with the president were always kept separate. He was adamant that Mr. Cipollone and Mr. Mulvaney were never involved in meetings related to Ukraine.

“It is absolutely, categorically untrue,” he said.

Neither Mr. Bolton nor a representative for Mr. Mulvaney responded to requests for comment. A White House spokesman did not respond to requests for comment.

Mr. Bolton described the roughly 10-minute conversation in drafts of his book, a memoir of his time as national security adviser that is to go on sale in March. Over several pages, Mr. Bolton laid out Mr. Trump’s fixation on Ukraine and the president’s belief, based on a mix of scattershot events, assertions and outright conspiracy theories, that Ukraine tried to undermine his chances of winning the presidency in 2016.

[...]