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Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:54 pm
by KUTradition
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:10 pm
by Shirley
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:18 pm
by KUTradition
Feral wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:10 pm
link not working
well, shit
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:27 pm
by ousdahl
I blame Putin
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pm
by ousdahl
yea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 7:32 pm
by Shirley
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pm
yea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
^^^
Afghanistan was like paradise on earth before we sent it back to the 14th century, singlehanded.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 7:47 pm
by japhy
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pm
yea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
So what would Ukraine look like today if no "lethal aid" was given?
What does the part of Ukraine that has been under Russian control look like now?
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:26 pm
by ousdahl
So what would Ukraine look like today if no "lethal aid" was given? I dunno, about as fucked as it's pretty much always looked - as some struggling war-torn country, on the other side of the world, that has bickered with their asshole neighbors since pretty much always. Much of it is right there in trad's article.
What does the part of Ukraine that has been under Russian control look like now? I dunno...which time? but whichever time it is, I'll guess war torn, and on the other side of the world, and fucked.
whatever the correct answer to both of those questions may be - in the grand scheme of things, just not sure anyone is really better off for taking a war-torn fucked country on the other side of the world and flooding it with even more weapons...paid for by you and me!
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:35 pm
by ousdahl
Feral wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 7:32 pm
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pm
yea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
^^^
Afghanistan was like paradise on earth before we sent it back to the 14th century, singlehanded.
lol
I guess that might beg the question of why even bother fucking with such a war-torn country on the other side of the world, but I'm pretty sure this thread at this point is at least in agreement that the Afghanistan war was dumb.
but if anyone 20 years ago suggested the Afghanistan war was dumb, they/them would Shirley be getting the Qusdahl treatment, right?
(lol I just said Shirley to Feral lol)
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:23 am
by DCHawk1
The Afghanistan war was not dumb.
The Afghanistan nation-building-experiment was dumb.
I blame Colin Powell.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:32 am
by japhy
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:26 pm
So what would Ukraine look like today if no "lethal aid" was given? I dunno, about as fucked as it's pretty much always looked - as some struggling war-torn country, on the other side of the world, that has bickered with their asshole neighbors since pretty much always. Much of it is right there in trad's article.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60610840
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:35 am
by ousdahl
looks pretty fucked.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:45 am
by ousdahl
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:23 am
The Afghanistan war was not dumb.
The Afghanistan nation-building-experiment was dumb.
Wait, so we DIDN’T go for freedom and democracy? Maybe I’m thinking of some other war…as an American it can be hard to keep track of them all.
Why wasn’t the Afghanistan war dumb?
I’ll guess cuz it gave us some outlet after we were collectively so pissed about 911?
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:20 am
by ousdahl
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:30 pm
ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:51 pm
Feral wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:37 pm
eventually the voices of reason, i.e., peace, prevailed.
sigh.
The voices of reason (understandably) didn't want to be drafted to fight a war half-way around the world for something they neither understood nor cared about.
You want this war to end soon? Make American kids go fight it.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:33 am
by KUTradition
Feral wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:10 pm
link not working
sorry for the delay
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/hist ... vides-them
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:36 am
by KUTradition
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:20 am
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:30 pm
ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:51 pm
sigh.
The voices of reason (understandably) didn't want to be drafted to fight a war half-way around the world for something they neither understood nor cared about.
You want this war to end soon? Make American kids go fight it.
so are the sons and daughters of every NATO member country, presuming those countries all stay true to their pledges
what’s your point?
that’s kinda a big reason to have such agreements, ya know? strength and stability in numbers. and, yet again, it’s what has largely been credited for more than a half century of relative peace in Europe
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:57 am
by japhy
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:36 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:20 am
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:30 pm
The voices of reason (understandably) didn't want to be drafted to fight a war half-way around the world for something they neither understood nor cared about.
You want this war to end soon? Make American kids go fight it.
so are the sons and daughters of every NATO member country, presuming those countries all stay true to their pledges
what’s your point?
that’s kinda a big reason to have such agreements, ya know? strength and stability in numbers. and, yet again, it’s what has largely been credited for more than a half century of relative peace in Europe
Relative peace with the exception of the consistently war torn fucked up mess that is Ukraine. Did you see the before and after the Russian invasion photos I posted. The place is no more a mess after the Russian invasion than it was before. If anything the Ukraine are better off now because they are getting fat from eating all the ammunition we sent them.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:08 am
by ousdahl
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:20 pm
See, that’s a big source of our bickering. I think it’s silly to accept such an oversimplified good guy bad guy narrative.
Besides, didn’t nato bomb Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, and Kosovo?
not to mention all the countries nato bombed that weren’t, uh, on the European continent
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:32 am
by Deleted User 863
War is a necessary evil.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:58 am
by KUTradition
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:08 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:20 pm
See, that’s a big source of our bickering. I think it’s silly to accept such an oversimplified good guy bad guy narrative.
Besides, didn’t nato bomb Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, and Kosovo?
not to mention all the countries nato bombed that weren’t, uh, on the European continent
why did NATO get involved in Bosnia?
violation of a no-fly zone
Kosovo?
NATO action was actually against Yugoslavia after they invaded Kosovo…resulting in bloodshed and ethnic cleansing. russia and china wouldn’t approve of a UN resolution, but apparently in order to stop the atrocities, the rest of the UN decided to act anyway
you should really look more than just skin-deep into these conflicts you keep touting as some sort of proof of a big bad, war-mongering NATO