Kansas Crimson

Cascadia wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:17 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:15 pm I'll wait until more details come out as to the timeline to see if I think the cops failed to do something that they should have done. I really don't know who was where and when quite yet. We'll see.

They’ve already admitted they made a mistake.

Yes.

They provided almost a minute by minute breakdown today. Reading off the 911 phone calls times and what was said.

They (the commanding officer) fucked up.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 12:14 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 12:13 pm also, Uvalde spends 40% of its budget on police.

*spent

Relatedly, I don't think the City of Uvalde, Texas will be insurable for quite some time.

could you expand on this please?

I think I get it but just wanna make sure

Assuming we are now getting the truth, there isn't a person with a brain that wouldn't conclude law enforcement fucked up in multiple ways. Meanwhile, in some instances, I don't believe for a second that we are getting the complete truth.
On another note, I assume I am not the only person who watched the video (or live feed) of Texas Department of Public Safety Col. Steven McCraw speaking at the presser today and noticed who/what he's surrounded by. A bunch of cowboy hat wearing WHITE (Caucasian) males. Make of that as you will.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:59 pm On another note, I assume I am not the only person who watched the video (or live feed) of Texas Department of Public Safety Col. Steven McCraw speaking at the presser today and noticed who/what he's surrounded by. A bunch of cowboy hat wearing WHITE (Caucasian) males. Make of that as you will.

i noticed that as well, and made a comment to the wife about it

but, the guys behind him were tejas rangers, not locals (if i understood correctly)

Lots of people of ALL colors wear cowboy hats in Texas. People wearing cowboy hats doesn't bother me.

The argument that armed security officers at every school will be a solution looses a lot of water when an entire armed police force don’t have the guts to try to stop one 18 year old for over an hour.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:36 pm The argument that armed security officers at every school will be a solution looses a lot of water when an entire armed police force don’t have the guts to try to stop one 18 year old for over an hour.

It certainly won't stop all of these incidents. But it is reasonable to assume it might stop 1 from happening before it starts. Or maybe it'll save a child or 2.

Seems like it's worth a shot.

But it doesn't need to be a national law. States or counties can do it on their own. School districts can do it on their own.

There were national guard at my kid's school today meeting with administrators. Sounds like some of the parents are volunteering just to be on campus on their days off. Doubt they'll be armed. But extra adults certainly can't hurt.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 6:08 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:59 pm On another note, I assume I am not the only person who watched the video (or live feed) of Texas Department of Public Safety Col. Steven McCraw speaking at the presser today and noticed who/what he's surrounded by. A bunch of cowboy hat wearing WHITE (Caucasian) males. Make of that as you will.

i noticed that as well, and made a comment to the wife about it

but, the guys behind him were tejas rangers, not locals (if i understood correctly)

I don't like to see a lack of inclusion/diversity in law enforcement.
It's an even worse look to me when I see it in a predominately Hispanic area.

“But certainly can't hurt.”

Disagree.
Accidents. Problematic officers ( just saw footage of an unarmed school security officer break a kids arm, we gonna give those peeps guns?) The general mindset of a school now with armed guards patrolling daily.

Start getting rid of the guns now.
Fewer, not more.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:59 pm “But certainly can't hurt.”

Disagree.
Accidents. Problematic officers ( just saw footage of an unarmed school security officer break a kids arm, we gonna give those peeps guns?) The general mindset of a school now with armed guards patrolling daily.

Start getting rid of the guns now.
Fewer, not more.

Fwiw, I am not saying they necessarily need to be armed. The volunteers at at my kid's school aren't/won't be armed.

Another set of adult eyes can't hurt was more what I was getting at.

Agree, getting rid of the guns is necessary too.

I can and possibly/probably will list a bunch more things but for now, let's review....

Massive amounts of misinformation was/were given in the initial press conference/s with law enforcement. These were black and white things that I am referring to. Not gray area things.
Meanwhile, when the media pointed out to the law enforcement officers that they were wrong about several accounts, they became silent.
WHY?

ALLEGEDLY a mother drove there, tried to go inside the school, got handcuffed, was then able to hop a fence, go inside the school, and walk out with her two kids. HOW?
* Meanwhile, 19 law enforcement "officers" waited how long outside the classroom where the gunman was?
HOW? WHY?

Unless I missed it (very possible), I haven't seen/heard/read anything in regards to where/how the shooter obtained the money to purchase the guns and ammo and how long it took him to receive the guns and ammo after he went in to the store. I did read he worked at Wendys so maybe he was able to save the money?
* Meanwhile, we live in a country where an 18 year old can walk in to a gun store and purchase two (or more) AR-15s and ammo - which they can then use for whatever purpose they choose. Including but not limited to shooting innocent children and teachers in a school.
HOW? WHY?

19 law enforcement officers and their "supervisor" were afraid of 1 shooter who they thought was (NOT?) still a threat to kill more children. It's not clear if they thought he was an "active" shooter or not. Regardless, it seems more children lost their lives because law enforcement felt the need to wait before "engaging" the shooter.
* Meanwhile, I choose to believe the 2 teachers that lost their lives were probably braver in this fiasco than the law enforcement officers were.
WHY?

A teacher ALLEGEDLY propped open the door that the shooter entered.
I have no meanwhile for this but I definitely have a - WHY?

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
* Meanwhile, the NRA banned guns from their convention but they didn't ban "mentally ill" people.
WHY?

This asshole read (and mis-pronounced many of) the names of the children who died and then did this after he read the names.
* Meanwhile, there is a decent chance he may be elected President in 2024.
WHY?



I guess we shouldn't be shocked. This is the same guy who's wife is holding a two month old orphan (parents were shot and killed in El Paso) and he felt a need to give a thumbs up. Thumbs up to/for what?

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:41 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:36 pm The argument that armed security officers at every school will be a solution looses a lot of water when an entire armed police force don’t have the guts to try to stop one 18 year old for over an hour.

It certainly won't stop all of these incidents. But it is reasonable to assume it might stop 1 from happening before it starts. Or maybe it'll save a child or 2.

Seems like it's worth a shot.

But it doesn't need to be a national law. States or counties can do it on their own. School districts can do it on their own.

There were national guard at my kid's school today meeting with administrators. Sounds like some of the parents are volunteering just to be on campus on their days off. Doubt they'll be armed. But extra adults certainly can't hurt.

Poorly paid or volunteer unarmed adults aren't going to make any difference at all. My guess is that the possible addition to the body count they would add would more than negate the "benefit" of one of them magically being able to do something to stop a kid from being killed.

Get these schools reinforced with proper entries. Enforce a zero tolerance policy on staff who leave any door unlocked or propped open. It is fundamentally absurd that this kid simply walked in a side door unimpeded.

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:17 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:41 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:36 pm The argument that armed security officers at every school will be a solution looses a lot of water when an entire armed police force don’t have the guts to try to stop one 18 year old for over an hour.

It certainly won't stop all of these incidents. But it is reasonable to assume it might stop 1 from happening before it starts. Or maybe it'll save a child or 2.

Seems like it's worth a shot.

But it doesn't need to be a national law. States or counties can do it on their own. School districts can do it on their own.

There were national guard at my kid's school today meeting with administrators. Sounds like some of the parents are volunteering just to be on campus on their days off. Doubt they'll be armed. But extra adults certainly can't hurt.

Poorly paid or volunteer unarmed adults aren't going to make any difference at all. My guess is that the possible addition to the body count they would add would more than negate the "benefit" of one of them magically being able to do something to stop a kid from being killed.

Ok. I'll let my kid's school district know Twocoach says this will make the problem worse not better.

Such a stupid fucking comment. Maybe the extra adult see the shooter approaching and can alert classrooms to lock doors sooner than if there wasn't an extra adult. Maybe that saves a few kids. For a guy who criticizes others for making assumptions with no way to back it up, you sure do it a lot yourself. What studies have shown that more adults make it worse not better? My guess is none.


Thankfully my kid's school district is TRYING to do SOMETHING, rather than throwing their hands up doing NOTHING.

We've got locked doors, buzzer entry, cameras, and volunteer adults.

Have a great weekend. If my school district starts looking for under qualified consultants I will be sure to send them your contact info. Until then, I will continue to trust the school administrators and law enforcement who they have been consulting with to make some common sense adjustments to their day to day operations.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:24 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:17 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:41 pm
It certainly won't stop all of these incidents. But it is reasonable to assume it might stop 1 from happening before it starts. Or maybe it'll save a child or 2.

Seems like it's worth a shot.

But it doesn't need to be a national law. States or counties can do it on their own. School districts can do it on their own.

There were national guard at my kid's school today meeting with administrators. Sounds like some of the parents are volunteering just to be on campus on their days off. Doubt they'll be armed. But extra adults certainly can't hurt.

Poorly paid or volunteer unarmed adults aren't going to make any difference at all. My guess is that the possible addition to the body count they would add would more than negate the "benefit" of one of them magically being able to do something to stop a kid from being killed.

Ok. I'll let my kid's school district know Twocoach says this will make the problem worse not better.

Such a stupid fucking comment. Maybe the extra adult see the shooter approaching and can alert classrooms to lock doors sooner than if there wasn't an extra adult. Maybe that saves a few kids.


Thankfully my kid's school district is TRYING to do SOMETHING, rather than throwing their hands up doing NOTHING.

We've got locked doors, buzzer entry, cameras, and volunteer adults.

All things that Uvalde had, except that they also had armed guards.

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:26 am
All things that Uvalde had, except that they also had armed guards.

Link?

Was he/she in the building?

Oh, and we have a cop in the parking lot almost all day every day.

And just because Uvalde had something doesn't necessarily mean those things are worthless. That's anecdotal evidence. I could point out each and every school that does do those things that HAVEN'T had a school shooting as evidence it does work. You should let all those schools know they are wasting their time.

My god.

I thought you refused to engage with me? And yet day after day you look to argue with stupid rebuttals about how NOTHING works.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:29 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:26 am
All things that Uvalde had, except that they also had armed guards.

Link?

Was he/she in the building?

Oh, and we have a cop in the parking lot almost all day every day.

Looks like this is one of many y statements that the authorities have backtracked on. Now they are saying that there was not an Uvalde ISD officer
onsite after initially stating there was one.

The shooter easily climbed their "security fence" despite having a long rifle and a bag of ammo in tow and then walked in one of their "always to be locked" doors.

https://fightingchancesolutions.com/pag ... room-doors

https://everytownresearch.org/report/pr ... n-schools/

https://www.securitymagazine.com/articl ... s-on-doors


Here's a few that says door locks at Oxford High may have saved lives...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theoak ... lives/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsna ... lives/amp/


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... pus-safety

https://www.windowfilmdepot.com/blog/pr ... ents-safe/

https://gdba.com/prevent-school-shootin ... ions-gdba/

https://nightlock.com/how-door-locks-have-saved-lives/



While our politicians sit and do mostly nothing about reducing the amount of guns/ease of access to guns/bans on weapons only needed to kill lots of people in a hurry, I will support school districts trying to use other ways to help the problem and save kids lives. You are welcome to go to your school board meetings and give your worthless opinion about how all these measures don't work at all. I think they help. At minimum maybe they help kids "feel" more safe, which matters too. Kids are scared to go to school. My children LOVE the adult volunteers that greet them in the drop off and pick up lines each day.

We also have an app so that the kids don't all get released at once. I "check in" that I am in the line, and then they are released. That was partly due to covid and partly do to avoiding large crowds during pick up, which may be a target if the would be shooter knows they can't get past locked doors, cameras, buzzer entry, etc.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:34 am And just because Uvalde had something doesn't necessarily mean those things are worthless. That's anecdotal evidence. I could point out each and every school that does do those things that HAVEN'T had a school shooting as evidence it does work. You should let all those schools know they are wasting their time.

My god.

I thought you refused to engage with me? And yet day after day you look to argue with stupid rebuttals about how NOTHING works.

The general point I am trying to make is that America is spending tons of money on relatively worthless solutions and not truly addressing the real problems.

We need to restrict access to these types of weapons.

We need to spend money on better social programs for teens so they have more of a community as well as better opportunities to be gainfully employed in a more meaningful career track than flipping burgers at a Wendy's.

We need to build a mental health system that is far more proactive, better networked and can immediately trigger off/on status on whatever database is checked in background checks.

We need to expand background checks to include all gun sales. Private sales, gun shows, everything.

Spending billions to build easily climbed fences and locked doors that people prop open just provides a false sense of security. Some of the money should obviously go to basics like single entries and locka le classroom doors. But there are things that I believe could have better return on investment as a true help to keep a community safer and healthier.