Kansas Crimson

Jalen has played 2min at the 5 so far this season by my count.

I don't want to play Jalen over Dave at the 5. Dave's start is just way more unacceptable. And he's sucked for twice as long. At his worst, he should be able to use his 6'10" 250 lb frame. Instead, just like every other beginning of the season, he's getting his ass pushed around and not rebounding.

We need Dave a lot more than Jalen. There are no excuses for Jalen, either, but Dave's start is much more disappointing and frustrating. Expectations are absolutely a part of that, but Dave's expectations were not unfair. A good and consistent Dave McCormack that consistently hits his ceiling is a lower team AA candidate.

He's been unplayable at times, and I can't remember the last time Bill Self eviscerated a player publicly as badly as he did to Dave last week.

The disappointment is not comparable.

See I am the opposite on this. I think Jalen is the better player and I had significantly higher expectations for Jalen than Dave this season.

...but we can endure Jalen struggles much more easily than we can Dave's.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:59 pm I don't want to play Jalen over Dave at the 5. Dave's start is just way more unacceptable. And he's sucked for twice as long. At his worst, he should be able to use his 6'10" 250 lb frame. Instead, just like every other beginning of the season, he's getting his ass pushed around and not rebounding.

We need Dave a lot more than Jalen. There are no excuses for Jalen, either, but Dave's start is much more disappointing and frustrating. Expectations are absolutely a part of that, but Dave's expectations were not unfair. A good and consistent Dave McCormack that consistently hits his ceiling is a lower team AA candidate.

He's been unplayable at times, and I can't remember the last time Bill Self eviscerated a player publicly as badly as he did to Dave last week.

The disappointment is not comparable.

I think your assessment of McCormack is spot on. I just think you're grossly underestimating where expectations were for Wilson...particularly on this message board.

Even the loftiest expectation for Jalen relative to the team would for him to be the 4th leading scorer but the leading rebounder. Compare that to preseason All Big 12 and Wooden Award list.

But, I'm not super worried about either of them--maybe Jalen more than Dave.

The only worry I see at this point is Bill's obsession, in the year 2022, with often having two players on the court that can't score. Granted, Dave and Jalen pulling their heads out may fix that for him.

Jalen's such a unique skill set.

Yea below the rim but best returning rebounder (as has been mentioned, despite looking tiny next to Dave).

As crazy as it sounds to compare him favorably to my boo Braun, he's statistically a better returning scorer, with several 20 point games and a shitload of double doubles already under his belt.

Quick first step. Could end up being this team's best slasher. Crazy potential on the fast break. Perhaps the best handles we've ever had in a forward.

Serviceable jumper that will only improve.

and - he's shown moments he seems to wanna be the man.

I don't expect him to get much run at the 5 tho. If he does, it's either matchup-dictated, cuz Dave and Mitch are both sucking it up, or maybe - and this is a big maybe - cuz it has the potential for the benefits to outweigh the risks - that we really are running teams out the gym, enough so to offset the vulnerabilities of playing a below the rim wing at center.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to my evening of cutting out magazine photos of Braun and pinning them all over my bedroom wall as decoration, right next to the pics of JTT and Hanson.

The truth is that Jalen is average to above-average at many things. But not close to great at any of them.

Ousdahl has just tasked himself as the campaign manager that has to oversell all of the "ok." Quick first step? For his size, at this level, sure. Our best slasher? Campaign manager work.

I expected Jalen to be 2nd or 3rd in scoring and 2nd in rebounding.


And the problem with the whole "use him at the 5 and run teams out of the gym" is that it only works if you can get defensive stops. Hard to truly run a team out of the gym if they're scoring on half their possessions and/or getting a decent % of offensive rebounds.

I am not overly worried about any single player yet, but i am very worried about our defense and rebounding deficiencies.

"And he's sucked for twice as long."

DMac has had a couple decent games out of the 6.
Jalen hasn't yet.

Crimscores .395 v .218.

I didn't expect Jalen to be 2nd or 3rd in scoring.

Ochai.
Then likely Remy and Dmac.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:54 am I didn't expect Jalen to be 2nd or 3rd in scoring.

Ochai.
Then likely Remy and Dmac.

I might have guessed Och and then Remy or Jalen in either order...but DMac belongee in that convo for sure. I didn't know what to expect out of Remy tbh.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:53 am "And he's sucked for twice as long."

DMac has had a couple decent games out of the 6.
Jalen hasn't yet.

Crimscores .395 v .218.

I think what's frustrating is that, as has been noted, Dave playing to his potential is a game-altering monster. Jalen playing to his potential is...a nice college player.

And by all rights Dave should have found a higher floor by this point in his career.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:11 am

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:53 am "And he's sucked for twice as long."

DMac has had a couple decent games out of the 6.
Jalen hasn't yet.

Crimscores .395 v .218.

I think what's frustrating is that, as has been noted, Dave playing to his potential is a game-altering monster. Jalen playing to his potential is...a nice college player.

And by all rights Dave should have found a higher floor by this point in his career.

No way should a player that big be playing this small.

The public tongue lashing he got after the first game in Orlando, the benching he got in the third game in Orlando, the players trying to encourage him through the media this week--he's just a delicate child inside of a 6'10" 250 lb. man's body.

Not to diagnose here, but sports therapist may be a great idea.

Yeah, sports therapist.

meanwhile, at Chi-O house…

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:11 am

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:53 am "And he's sucked for twice as long."

DMac has had a couple decent games out of the 6.
Jalen hasn't yet.

Crimscores .395 v .218.

I think what's frustrating is that, as has been noted, Dave playing to his potential is a game-altering monster. Jalen playing to his potential is...a nice college player.

Dave is at least partly (maybe totally) a "game altering monster" when he plays well because of guys like Och and Jalen around him. Even at his best Dave couldn't be the #1 player on a national title contender because he's just not quite as good at basketball as those types of players.

And i think Jalen only seems like a "nice college player" at his best because we've had the luxury of similarly talented guys at his position around him.

Neither are elite next level caliber players imo, even at their best.

Och is the only guy showing that or that has showed that (maybe down the road some of the freshman will).

Actually, what is the sports therapist scene like for student ath-o-letes?

Is that something that’s provided or available?

Is it something they’d have to pay out of pocket for?

Maybe Dave could strike some NIL deal for therapy services in exchange for a shout-out.

"Dave is at least partly (maybe totally) a "game altering monster" when he plays well because of guys like Och and Jalen around him."

I don't agree with this.
Ochai and Jalen weren't all that good last year - their shooting numbers weren't high enough to stop defenses from collapsing when Dave got it on the block ( if they could feed him the ball at a good spot ).
But there were games where Dave was doubled but he just couldn't be stopped ( Oklahoma State games ).

Game altering monster seems too much though.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:11 am

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:53 am "And he's sucked for twice as long."

DMac has had a couple decent games out of the 6.
Jalen hasn't yet.

Crimscores .395 v .218.

I think what's frustrating is that, as has been noted, Dave playing to his potential is a game-altering monster. Jalen playing to his potential is...a nice college player.

And by all rights Dave should have found a higher floor by this point in his career.

Oh, boy. DMac has had 6 games in his 98 game KU career where he has scored more than 18 points. Six.

Wilson has had 4 in 34 career KU games.

I think you might be laying on the superlatives a bit thick to try to make your point. I know that one amazing game he had against UMKC was intoxicating but he really has done nothing to justify "his potential is a game-altering monster."

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:21 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:11 am

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:53 am "And he's sucked for twice as long."

DMac has had a couple decent games out of the 6.
Jalen hasn't yet.

Crimscores .395 v .218.

I think what's frustrating is that, as has been noted, Dave playing to his potential is a game-altering monster. Jalen playing to his potential is...a nice college player.

And by all rights Dave should have found a higher floor by this point in his career.

Oh, boy. DMac has had 6 games in his 98 game KU career where he has scored more than 18 points. Six.

Wilson has had 4 in 34 career KU games.

I think you might be laying on the superlatives a bit thick to try to make your point. I know that one amazing game he had against UMKC was intoxicating but he really has done nothing to justify "his potential is a game-altering monster."

It's totally subjective, I'll admit. I just think we have more to gain as a team from Dave figuring it out, than Jalen.

Key word is "potential." It's largely untapped potential, yes.

But the combo of his frame and athleticism is great. DMac would have a pretty killer highlight reel. It's all the stuff you don't see in that reel that makes him so frustrating. His footwork sucks and he's a headcase. You'd like to think that both of those can be fixed. What you can't teach is his size and athleticism.

Highlight reel Dave that would show up night-in and night-out would be a game-altering monster.