Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:31 pm
We'll see when his career ends.
We'll see when his career ends.
Maybe it's just because I dislike KD, but the 2 extra titles for Steph matter for me. Both 2x MVP. KD has 2 more all NBAs and 2 more scoring titles.
Steph's the way better teammate, but KD's the way better basketball player.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:32 pmMaybe it's just because I dislike KD, but the 2 extra titles for Steph matter for me. Both 2x MVP. KD has 2 more all NBAs and 2 more scoring titles.
KD has only won with Steph/by joining a dynasty. He'd have no titles if not for his move to GS.
I guess I agree KD is better at basketball than Steph, but when doing my personal all time top 10 or 15 list, it feels like sort of a combination of individual talent as well as career accomplishments/success. If it's just individual skill then some of those old guys wouldn't be on my list.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:48 pmSteph's the way better teammate, but KD's the way better basketball player.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:32 pmMaybe it's just because I dislike KD, but the 2 extra titles for Steph matter for me. Both 2x MVP. KD has 2 more all NBAs and 2 more scoring titles.
KD has only won with Steph/by joining a dynasty. He'd have no titles if not for his move to GS.
If you can put down your dislike for KD, a distaste that I can understand, he's much more of a unicorn than Steph is. And that's not meant to be a knock on Steph. You're talking about athletic, 7 footer-length, great defender with Larry Bird-esque offensive skills. That's absurd enough, and then KD was the dude when it mattered when they played on the same team.
I probably jumped Curry close to 10 spots after last night, so I get it.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:02 pmI guess I agree KD is better at basketball than Steph, but when doing my personal all time top 10 or 15 list, it feels like sort of a combination of individual talent as well as career accomplishments/success. If it's just individual skill then some of those old guys wouldn't be on my list.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:48 pmSteph's the way better teammate, but KD's the way better basketball player.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:32 pm
Maybe it's just because I dislike KD, but the 2 extra titles for Steph matter for me. Both 2x MVP. KD has 2 more all NBAs and 2 more scoring titles.
KD has only won with Steph/by joining a dynasty. He'd have no titles if not for his move to GS.
If you can put down your dislike for KD, a distaste that I can understand, he's much more of a unicorn than Steph is. And that's not meant to be a knock on Steph. You're talking about athletic, 7 footer-length, great defender with Larry Bird-esque offensive skills. That's absurd enough, and then KD was the dude when it mattered when they played on the same team.
It's close, but I'd put Steph above KD on my all time top 10 list, especially after last night. Maybe I am a prisoner of the moment. Maybe I just dislike KD too much.
The difference is that Curry and Durant are basically the same age playing in the exact same era at the same time.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:04 pm For instance, Joel Embiid is better at basketball than Hakeem or Russell imo. He'd probably also give Wilt Shaq and Duncan all they could handle. But I don't have Embiid on my all time top 10 or 15.
I totally see your points.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:10 pmI probably jumped Curry close to 10 spots after last night, so I get it.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:02 pmI guess I agree KD is better at basketball than Steph, but when doing my personal all time top 10 or 15 list, it feels like sort of a combination of individual talent as well as career accomplishments/success. If it's just individual skill then some of those old guys wouldn't be on my list.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:48 pm
Steph's the way better teammate, but KD's the way better basketball player.
If you can put down your dislike for KD, a distaste that I can understand, he's much more of a unicorn than Steph is. And that's not meant to be a knock on Steph. You're talking about athletic, 7 footer-length, great defender with Larry Bird-esque offensive skills. That's absurd enough, and then KD was the dude when it mattered when they played on the same team.
It's close, but I'd put Steph above KD on my all time top 10 list, especially after last night. Maybe I am a prisoner of the moment. Maybe I just dislike KD too much.
But the rest of the titles aren't as meaningful for me in this comparison considering Durant was the clear Finals MVP for 2 of the other 3 and then Curry was not the MVP for his one without Durant.
There's a little bit of a "System-QB" thing with Curry. If Curry spends his first 10 seasons as thee guy at what was basically a new franchise in OKC, he's also not winning any titles there.
And, of course, there's still time left on this, but if they retired today, Steph would decidedly be behind Durant. The stats and the eye test aren't close for me.
I get your logic on it, and it's just an opinion, so I get it.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:15 pmI totally see your points.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:10 pmI probably jumped Curry close to 10 spots after last night, so I get it.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:02 pm
I guess I agree KD is better at basketball than Steph, but when doing my personal all time top 10 or 15 list, it feels like sort of a combination of individual talent as well as career accomplishments/success. If it's just individual skill then some of those old guys wouldn't be on my list.
It's close, but I'd put Steph above KD on my all time top 10 list, especially after last night. Maybe I am a prisoner of the moment. Maybe I just dislike KD too much.
But the rest of the titles aren't as meaningful for me in this comparison considering Durant was the clear Finals MVP for 2 of the other 3 and then Curry was not the MVP for his one without Durant.
There's a little bit of a "System-QB" thing with Curry. If Curry spends his first 10 seasons as thee guy at what was basically a new franchise in OKC, he's also not winning any titles there.
And, of course, there's still time left on this, but if they retired today, Steph would decidedly be behind Durant. The stats and the eye test aren't close for me.
I guess maybe the best comparison that comes to my mind is for NFL. I think Peyton Manning was better individually at QB than Tom Brady, but I would rank Brady ahead of Manning on my all time list.
The Illanoy calling cardCrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:20 pmWe're wildly off-topic now, though.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:15 pmI totally see your points.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:10 pm
I probably jumped Curry close to 10 spots after last night, so I get it.
But the rest of the titles aren't as meaningful for me in this comparison considering Durant was the clear Finals MVP for 2 of the other 3 and then Curry was not the MVP for his one without Durant.
There's a little bit of a "System-QB" thing with Curry. If Curry spends his first 10 seasons as thee guy at what was basically a new franchise in OKC, he's also not winning any titles there.
And, of course, there's still time left on this, but if they retired today, Steph would decidedly be behind Durant. The stats and the eye test aren't close for me.
I guess maybe the best comparison that comes to my mind is for NFL. I think Peyton Manning was better individually at QB than Tom Brady, but I would rank Brady ahead of Manning on my all time list.
I saw an interesting stat on the differences in quality of defense that Manning had each season vs what Brady had each season, and the difference was staggering.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:20 pmI get your logic on it, and it's just an opinion, so I get it.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:15 pmI totally see your points.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:10 pm
I probably jumped Curry close to 10 spots after last night, so I get it.
But the rest of the titles aren't as meaningful for me in this comparison considering Durant was the clear Finals MVP for 2 of the other 3 and then Curry was not the MVP for his one without Durant.
There's a little bit of a "System-QB" thing with Curry. If Curry spends his first 10 seasons as thee guy at what was basically a new franchise in OKC, he's also not winning any titles there.
And, of course, there's still time left on this, but if they retired today, Steph would decidedly be behind Durant. The stats and the eye test aren't close for me.
I guess maybe the best comparison that comes to my mind is for NFL. I think Peyton Manning was better individually at QB than Tom Brady, but I would rank Brady ahead of Manning on my all time list.
So, Brady and Manning example is unneeded, but partly why Brady completely separated himself from Manning is that they were just so night and day when it came to the playoffs. Early on, Manning looked more skilled, but the stats and wins just kept piling up for Brady. And then Brady's 2007 season, and I would argue this last 2021 season showed that Brady's A-Game was every bit as good as Manning's. We're wildly off-topic now, though.
You could also point out, though, that Manning always had better offensive weapons including a HOF WR in IND. There's just too big of a difference: Brady is 35-12 all time in the playoffs. Manning was 14-13.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:25 pmI saw an interesting stat on the differences in quality of defense that Manning had each season vs what Brady had each season, and the difference was staggering.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:20 pmI get your logic on it, and it's just an opinion, so I get it.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:15 pm
I totally see your points.
I guess maybe the best comparison that comes to my mind is for NFL. I think Peyton Manning was better individually at QB than Tom Brady, but I would rank Brady ahead of Manning on my all time list.
So, Brady and Manning example is unneeded, but partly why Brady completely separated himself from Manning is that they were just so night and day when it came to the playoffs. Early on, Manning looked more skilled, but the stats and wins just kept piling up for Brady. And then Brady's 2007 season, and I would argue this last 2021 season showed that Brady's A-Game was every bit as good as Manning's. We're wildly off-topic now, though.
But yes, totally off topic.
Wiggins seems to fit well in GS and has already made an obscene amount of money so it wouldn't surprise me if he stayed in GS for as long as they'll have him.BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:07 pm Does he spend the majority of the rest of his career in GS now? Or does he now have so much market value that it becomes impossible for them to keep him after next season when he becomes a UFA?
Manning's best was better than Brady's best but Brady was better at playing close to his best under pressure while Manning got happy feet too often under pressure. A lot has to do with Brady having the GOAT HC to shoulder the pressure of having to make all the right calls while Manning shouldered that pressure himself.Cascadia wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:42 pm I think there is a distinction between best/talented vs most successful. I still think Manning was the best QB I've ever seen play. But, Brady clearly the most successful. Similarly, I think Durant is a much better basketball player than Curry, but Curry will have a more successful career. If Durant was such a headcase he could have retired in the GOAT conversation.