Welcome Kevin McCullar

[twocoach]

Rush doesnt make my jersey cut.

Neither does Walt Wesley, Bid Stallworth, Wayne Simien, Thomas Robinson, Paul Pierce, Drew Gooden or Nick Collison from what I can see in a quick review. Sherron's the only KU player in the last 25 years to be a two time All American. If you're trying to highlight all the great players of your program for fans and recruits, that's too strict of criteria.

Here's the list of KU All Americans I am working off of: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sc ... erica.html

[pdub]

I think TRob was a consensus 1st team AA.
He was in the last 4 candidates for the Naismith but Anthony Davis dominated that award.
He had one of the greatest seasons ever under Bill Self averaging almost 18 PPG and 12 RPG.

No player under Self has had a season over 400 rebounds - except TRob.
Only 4 players under Self have had more points in a season.

All that said, TRob still isn't a lock for me - it'd be close.

[jfish26]

If Thomas Robinson is below the cut-line, then ... I believe Frank would be the only slam-dunk Bill-era jersey.

[DeletedUser]

TRob is a lock for me.

Rush, Aldrich, Morris....closer to the cut line. And partly because they left early.

I don't need 2x AA....but, if you leave early, my criteria is more strict.

[pdub]

Wayne Simien was a consensus 1st team AA.
Nick Collison was a consensus 1st team AA and got a NPOY award.
Drew Gooden was a consensus 1st team AA and got a NPOY award.
Paul Pierce was a consensus 1st team AA.

Bud Stallworth averaged over 18 PPG for his entire career. He's top 25 all time in scoring. He didn't get 1st team AA his senior season but he averaged 25.3 PPG and 7.7 RPG. Other than Wilt and Clyde, ( nope not even Danny ) no other Jayhawk has averaged that many points per game in a season.

The players who got 1st team AA over him that year:

Bob McAdoo - 19.5 PPG and 10.1 RPG.
Ed Ratleff - 22.8 PPG and 8.7 RPG.
Tom Riker - 19.6 PPG and 10.4 RPG.

Walt Wesley probably doesn't make my jersey list...though he also is pretty close.
( 20.7 PPG and 9.3 RPG his senior year )
His team also got cheated out of a national title shot.

[pdub]

If Thomas Robinson is below the cut-line, then ... I believe Frank would be the only slam-dunk Bill-era jersey.

Sherron.
Vonte.
Ochai.

I think i'd hang TRob's in the end - 90% chance?
Brandon Rush very likely no.
Marcus Morris no - less so than BRush bc I think BRush contributed more over his career and was 'unfortunate' to be on a team stacked with dudes.
Chalmers, no.

[jfish26]

If Thomas Robinson is below the cut-line, then ... I believe Frank would be the only slam-dunk Bill-era jersey.

Sherron.
Vonte.
Ochai.

I think i'd hang TRob's in the end - 90% chance?
Brandon Rush very likely no.
Marcus Morris no - less so than BRush bc I think BRush contributed more over his career and was 'unfortunate' to be on a team stacked with dudes.
Chalmers, no.

I disagree with requiring a championship, which is the only thing that Sherron and Ochai have over Thomas. I do not see what possible argument Devonte has over Thomas.

[DeletedUser]

Chalmers is a yes for me because "the shot" is iconic.

Very likely the most iconic moment in the history of KU basketball.

[jfish26]

Chalmers is a yes for me because "the shot" is iconic.

Very likely the most iconic moment in the history of KU basketball.

He would be below my cut line, at least as to this golden era.

[pdub]

If Thomas Robinson is below the cut-line, then ... I believe Frank would be the only slam-dunk Bill-era jersey.

Sherron.
Vonte.
Ochai.

I think i'd hang TRob's in the end - 90% chance?
Brandon Rush very likely no.
Marcus Morris no - less so than BRush bc I think BRush contributed more over his career and was 'unfortunate' to be on a team stacked with dudes.
Chalmers, no.

I disagree with requiring a championship, which is the only thing that Sherron and Ochai have over Thomas. I do not see what possible argument Devonte has over Thomas.

Vonte is 13th all time in total points scored.
2nd all time in 3 pointers made.
5th all time in assists.
7th all time in steals.
Most assists in a single season all time.

Sherron is 5th all time in scoring and a two time 1st team AA.

Total career is important to me for this - hence why a Wiggins or Hunter, if he bounced after this season, wouldn't sniff the rafters.

Thomas had a rockstar final season.
But he also had fewer career points than Lagerald Vick.

[DeletedUser]

I am okay with TRob also getting a boost because of what he went through at KU and what that bond was like between he and the crowd in AFH.

There was something extra about that bond that is rare and unique.

[jfish26]

Sherron.
Vonte.
Ochai.

I think i'd hang TRob's in the end - 90% chance?
Brandon Rush very likely no.
Marcus Morris no - less so than BRush bc I think BRush contributed more over his career and was 'unfortunate' to be on a team stacked with dudes.
Chalmers, no.

I disagree with requiring a championship, which is the only thing that Sherron and Ochai have over Thomas. I do not see what possible argument Devonte has over Thomas.

Vonte is 13th all time in total points scored.
Sherron is 5th all time.

I don't know that I can quantify it exactly, but in my view there is a line somewhere that separates short-timers from long-timers. The line is certainly somewhere beyond one year - it would take something extraordinary among the extraordinary for me to support a one-year player going up.

But once you're a long-timer, in my book, the aggregate counting stats aren't really that important (and so I focus on peak).

Which all is obviously quite subjective, but is a way of explaining why I think that Devonte's point total does not, for me, support putting him ahead of Thomas.

Sherron's case is improved (to understate it) by the ring, and his specific contributions to it. But I, personally, subjectively, cannot see an argument for Devonte over Thomas.

[jfish26]

I answered your pre-edited post (I would STRONGLY support the edit function requiring the edits to be shown, btw), but the substance of my answer fits the post still.

[pdub]

13th all time in scoring at Kansas is a big deal.
Vonte also was a consensus 1st team All American.
His senior season was pretty damn close to being as good as TRob's.

Cumulative stats are a big deal to me - at least when you're talking, I dunno, top 25 all time - it means you were an impact over time and not just one season.

[jfish26]

13th all time in scoring at Kansas is a big deal.
Vonte also was a consensus 1st team All American.

A huge deal! I support Devonte being up there!

I just would not have him ahead of or even tied with Thomas.

[pdub]

I certainly do.
Thomas's last season wasn't far better than Vonte's.
Vonte leads more major categories across the bored in totals.

He made 2 all B12 teams ( vs TRob's 1 ).
He made an all B12 defense team ( vs TRob's none ).
His team got beat by the best team in the NCAA tournament twice ( v TRob's once ).

Thomas had one extremely good season - the other two he came off the bench.
Vonte started all but 2 games from sophomore year to senior year.

[jfish26]

I certainly do.
Thomas's last season wasn't far better than Vonte's.
Vonte leads more major categories across the bored in totals.

I don't care, as between Thomas and Devonte, about career totals.

I disagree on their peak seasons. The difference in their surrounding casts is a huge differentiator between the two, for me.

Guys 6-8 on 17-18 were Garrett, Lightfoot and De Sousa.

Guys 6-8 on 11-12 were Teahan, Young and Wesley.

You may disagree - and I'm open to arguments! - but in my opinion 17-18 was much, much deeper.

[pdub]

"I don't care, as between Thomas and Devonte, about career totals."

Then let's get Hunter up pronto!

This, to me, is such a bad take, not caring about entirety of a career.

I'll concede that TRob's final season was a better one ( and agree his cast was worse ).
But I don't think all that much better.
He took far more shots per minute than Vonte did ( probably bc he had to ).
And again, Vonte had the MOST assists in one season EVER by any Jayhawk that year.

[pdub]

Thomas had one elite season.
Vonte had one elite season, one very good season, one good season and one season like TRob's other 2 seasons.
He started 3 out of the 4 years he was there on some loaded teams.

To me, that means a lot.

I'm hanging a banner for what you did in your time, your entire time, as a Jayhawk.

[jfish26]

"I don't care, as between Thomas and Devonte, about career totals."

Then let's get Hunter up pronto!

This, to me, is such a bad take, not caring about entirety of a career.

I'll concede that TRob's final season was a better one ( and agree his cast was worse ).
But I don't think all that much better.
He took far more shots per minute than Vonte did ( probably bc he had to ).
And again, Vonte had the MOST assists in one season EVER by any Jayhawk that year.

Why gloss over what I said earlier? That eager to get to the Hunter-is-lazy-and-doesn't-care straw man?

I don't know that I can quantify it exactly, but in my view there is a line somewhere that separates short-timers from long-timers. The line is certainly somewhere beyond one year - it would take something extraordinary among the extraordinary for me to support a one-year player going up.