Kansas Crimson

again, I don't mean to play any victim here!

but if literally nobody here has said that, then man, what a lotta fuss over trying to discuss nato as anything BUT the unilateral good guys.

I'm concerned by the comparisons to lobster, once again. Yea I guess trying to frame one thing as another in some general sense is the kind of shit lobster used to do, but come on. Global politics is a little more complex than vaccine conspiracies.

One could just as easily say the kind of shit lobster used to do is summarily ignore evidence produced (in this case, of French protests being about more than just pension reform, and specifically against nato), so as to preserve some world view that may be compromised by otherwise just considering the evidence at hand.

but shit, I don't wanna spend the day accusing one another of being invertebrates.

moving right along...

guess how pissed Qusdahl is about this one!

and man, check out THIS headline.

...so much for the whole Ukrainian sovereignty thing, I guess.

xi and putin bromance offers no path to peace…why am i not surprised

that’s a random way to end an article otherwise about China’s attempts at peace talks. Or something.

these parts of your article are more fun:

To resolve the war, the leaders said “the legitimate security concerns of all countries must be respected.” They called for an end to “all moves that lead to tensions and the protraction of fighting to prevent the crisis from worsening or even getting out of control,” in what appeared to be an oblique reference to NATO weapons supplies to Kyiv.

...The United States has threatened to impose economic sanctions if Beijing supplies arms. Senior Chinese officials have accused Washington of hypocrisy, given the huge flow of Western weapons to Kyiv.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:59 pm xi and putin bromance offers no path to peace…why am i not surprised

why not?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:47 pm that’s a random way to end an article otherwise about China’s attempts at peace talks. Or something.

these parts of your article are more fun:

To resolve the war, the leaders said “the legitimate security concerns of all countries must be respected.” They called for an end to “all moves that lead to tensions and the protraction of fighting to prevent the crisis from worsening or even getting out of control,” in what appeared to be an oblique reference to NATO weapons supplies to Kyiv.

...The United States has threatened to impose economic sanctions if Beijing supplies arms. Senior Chinese officials have accused Washington of hypocrisy, given the huge flow of Western weapons to Kyiv.

you do know that even if Ukraine agrees to not joining NATO, that putin won’t agree to Ukraine’s sovereign boundaries, right?

it’s like you’re deliberately being blind to the elephant in the room

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:48 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:59 pm xi and putin bromance offers no path to peace…why am i not surprised

why not?

why am i not surprised?

because this has never been about anything other than putin’s personal ambitions

NATO, nazis, the people of eastern Ukraine…none of those actually matter, despite what your twitter feed says

Win or lose, Zelnski is a ____ing stud! The right guy in the right place at the right time. Who could have imagined Ukraine would survive the initial invasion, let alone be holding their own a year later?

With his history in the media, Zelnski understands how powerful visuals can be to motivating Ukrainians and keeping morale high. Visiting Bakhmut, on the front line of the most active area of the war, in daylight, is a great way to respond to Putin's visit to the Russian occupied Ukrainian city of Mariupol in the middle of the night under cover of darkness, on 3/19.

Slava Ukraine!

"with his history in the media"

prior to the office of president, Zelensky was a tv actor in a satirical comedy.

in other words, he has about as much actual political experience as Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho.

Or, less satirically, that guy from The Apprentice.

but, let's go ahead and give him the hero treatment just the same.

a ____ing stud!

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:38 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:48 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:59 pm xi and putin bromance offers no path to peace…why am i not surprised

why not?

why am i not surprised?

because this has never been about anything other than putin’s personal ambitions

NATO, nazis, the people of eastern Ukraine…none of those actually matter, despite what your twitter feed says

this is the root of our disagreements in this thread.

I just think it's silly - maybe even irresponsible! - to think of this all in such simplistic terms. This isn't a pro wrestling storyline, it's a complex geopolitical issue. It's taken years, decades, centuries, to get to where we are today. I've tried to articulate this a hundred different ways, to no avail.

So let me run with your take, and try it this way: if this really has never been about anything other than Putin's professional ambitions, then...

what exactly are Putin's personal ambitions?

and, perhaps more significantly, what prompted him to pursue them?

Did he just wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day in February 2022 and decide to go full illy?

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:36 pm
you do know that even if Ukraine agrees to not joining NATO, that putin won’t agree to Ukraine’s sovereign boundaries, right?

care to elaborate?

and do you have any sources or anything about this? Has Ukraine or NATO or the US or anyone else actually put that much on the table?

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:37 pm it’s like you’re deliberately being blind to the elephant in the room

with that elephant being...how much of a boogeyman Putin is?

are you *suuuuuuuuuuure* there isn't an even bigger elephant yet?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:40 am "with his history in the media"

prior to the office of president, Zelensky was a tv actor in a satirical comedy.

in other words, he has about as much actual political experience as Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho.

Or, less satirically, that guy from The Apprentice.

but, let's go ahead and give him the hero treatment just the same.

a ____ing stud!

"in other words, he has about as much actual political experience as Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho."

Which only makes his ability to have risen to the moment and accomplish what he has, all the more impressive. Who would have guessed?

Large of you to help confirm it.

i’ve provided evidence/support for everything i posted

that’s your fault if you didn’t read them

sorry they weren’t on twitter

dangit.

I wish you wouldn't go full CoyDC, but here we are.

I genuinely don't recall you posting whatever evidence/support you're referring to. So, go ahead and fault me if you must. But, could you afford me a mulligan here, and kindly point me to the evidence in question?

...for really any point you'd like to make. But, for the sake of this most recent discussion, please offer your evidence/support for your understanding of:

- Putin's personal ambitions
- what details prompted him to pursue them
- whether Ukraine not joining NATO has been offered as a bargaining chip
- whether there might be even bigger elephants yet

and since I want to avoid going CoyDC myself, let me let you take a peek at that even bigger elephant...

I'm confident Rational DC would back me up about this.

Or, DC, if you'd like to be justheretohelp, please feel free to correct me otherwise!

no

google it yourself

i’m done engaging with your nonsense. have fun talking to yourself and your twitter feed