Kansas Crimson

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:08 am Between Harp, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman I would take those four against Klay, Dray, Steph and KD. The biggest match up problem on those Warriors team would have been Steph. During the second three peat the aging Bulls struggled against quick and athletic guards (Damon Stoudamire) or guards who ran off lots of screens (Reggie Miller). Mike was completely worn down in the 98 ECF against the Pacers because he was having to run through screens defending Reggie. That would be my tactic if I had to play against Jordan. Wear him out on defense so he isn't as effective on offense.

Seemed that a lot of teams wore themselves out trying to wear MJ out.

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:08 am Between Harp, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman I would take those four against Klay, Dray, Steph and KD. The biggest match up problem on those Warriors team would have been Steph. During the second three peat the aging Bulls struggled against quick and athletic guards (Damon Stoudamire) or guards who ran off lots of screens (Reggie Miller). Mike was completely worn down in the 98 ECF against the Pacers because he was having to run through screens defending Reggie. That would be my tactic if I had to play against Jordan. Wear him out on defense so he isn't as effective on offense.

'96 rules would change how effective Steph is, as well. I imagine after one lane floater, Steph would be put on his ass by Pip or Rodman. Even teams today are able to hold Steph down if you turn him into a catch and shooter only. '20 Dubs are/were awful, even when he was healthy. '96 are better equipped to guard '17 Dubs than vice versa, but agree that the Dubs best chance at exposure would be pace.

Every team tried and as his records indicated Mike usually got the upper hand.

We can talk match ups all day but the one intangible that can't be underestimated is Mike's competitive drive and will to win. I just have a gut feeling that whoever you put in-front of MJ during either his first or second three peats he would have found a way to win.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:19 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:08 am Between Harp, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman I would take those four against Klay, Dray, Steph and KD. The biggest match up problem on those Warriors team would have been Steph. During the second three peat the aging Bulls struggled against quick and athletic guards (Damon Stoudamire) or guards who ran off lots of screens (Reggie Miller). Mike was completely worn down in the 98 ECF against the Pacers because he was having to run through screens defending Reggie. That would be my tactic if I had to play against Jordan. Wear him out on defense so he isn't as effective on offense.

'96 rules would change how effective Steph is, as well. I imagine after one lane floater, Steph would be put on his ass by Pip or Rodman. Even teams today are able to hold Steph down if you turn him into a catch and shooter only. '20 Dubs are/were awful, even when he was healthy. '96 are better equipped to guard '17 Dubs than vice versa, but agree that the Dubs best chance at exposure would be pace.

When he was healthy their second option was still D'Angelo Russell. Decent scorer, but he's no Klay or KD.

I hate how people use the "put on his ass" as a way to exaggerate how great defensive tactics were 30 years ago. They were still fouls. Just not flagrant. Gotta sit Rodman the last 10 minutes of the half with 3 fouls, but he put him on his ass 3 times! That's great!

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:35 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:19 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:08 am Between Harp, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman I would take those four against Klay, Dray, Steph and KD. The biggest match up problem on those Warriors team would have been Steph. During the second three peat the aging Bulls struggled against quick and athletic guards (Damon Stoudamire) or guards who ran off lots of screens (Reggie Miller). Mike was completely worn down in the 98 ECF against the Pacers because he was having to run through screens defending Reggie. That would be my tactic if I had to play against Jordan. Wear him out on defense so he isn't as effective on offense.

'96 rules would change how effective Steph is, as well. I imagine after one lane floater, Steph would be put on his ass by Pip or Rodman. Even teams today are able to hold Steph down if you turn him into a catch and shooter only. '20 Dubs are/were awful, even when he was healthy. '96 are better equipped to guard '17 Dubs than vice versa, but agree that the Dubs best chance at exposure would be pace.

When he was healthy their second option was still D'Angelo Russell. Decent scorer, but he's no Klay or KD.

I hate how people use the "put on his ass" as a way to exaggerate how great defensive tactics were 30 years ago. They were still fouls. Just not flagrant. Gotta sit Rodman the last 10 minutes of the half with 3 fouls, but he put him on his ass 3 times! That's great!

Well it was called differently then, which was a disadvantage for the offense.

And, while fouls aren’t good for the defense, it takes a toll mentally and physically on the guards. Most thinking changes, even if subconsciously after enduring being put on their ass all game.

To succeed against that, you gotta play at the rim a la Wade and Rose, and they got beat the F up, even in the 2000’s. Rules have changed to facilitate guard scoring, which sells jerseys.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:01 am Do we know who made that list?

Some guys on the panel:

Tim Bontemps
Writes for the Washington Post about the NBA.

Andrew Lopez
New Orleans beat writer

Dave McMenamin
Lakers beat writer

Kevin Pelton
Former consultant for the Pacers, Seattle sports writer

Tim MacMahon
NBA reporter, beat writer for Dallas sports

Nick Friedell
Chicago sports writer

Ohm Youngmisuk
NY sports writer of 12 years, covers Clippers

Don't worry - I get that you know better than them and it's a conspiracy to promote LeBron.

The biggest one being the elimination of hand checking in 2004. It wasn't an accident that games became more wide open and scoring went up. Someone like Steve Nash went from pretty good all-star player to a 2x MVP.

The hard fouls would be one thing but guys like Pippen and Jordan, who both had rather strong and large hands could essentially move or force KD and Steph all over the court. Albeit by '91 that Magic was on the down turn of his career but Pip complete neutralized Magic because he basically body bumped and rode Magic down the entire court, lol. Same thing happened to Mark Jackson in 98 during the ECF against the Pacers.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:48 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:01 am Do we know who made that list?

Some guys on the panel:

Tim Bontemps
Writes for the Washington Post about the NBA.

Andrew Lopez
New Orleans beat writer

Dave McMenamin
Lakers beat writer

Kevin Pelton
Former consultant for the Pacers, Seattle sports writer

Tim MacMahon
NBA reporter, beat writer for Dallas sports

Nick Friedell
Chicago sports writer

Ohm Youngmisuk
NY sports writer of 12 years, covers Clippers

Don't worry - I get that you know better than them and it's a conspiracy to promote LeBron.

Wow, that’s really an impressive list of ‘experts’

Pippen was an inch or two shorter and 20 lbs lighter than Durant.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:53 am

pdub wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:48 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:01 am Do we know who made that list?

Some guys on the panel:

Tim Bontemps
Writes for the Washington Post about the NBA.

Andrew Lopez
New Orleans beat writer

Dave McMenamin
Lakers beat writer

Kevin Pelton
Former consultant for the Pacers, Seattle sports writer

Tim MacMahon
NBA reporter, beat writer for Dallas sports

Nick Friedell
Chicago sports writer

Ohm Youngmisuk
NY sports writer of 12 years, covers Clippers

Don't worry - I get that you know better than them and it's a conspiracy to promote LeBron.

Wow, that’s really an impressive list of ‘experts’

Good thing you know better since you know have covered the NBA for a good part of your life as your job.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:54 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:53 am

pdub wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:48 am

Some guys on the panel:

Tim Bontemps
Writes for the Washington Post about the NBA.

Andrew Lopez
New Orleans beat writer

Dave McMenamin
Lakers beat writer

Kevin Pelton
Former consultant for the Pacers, Seattle sports writer

Tim MacMahon
NBA reporter, beat writer for Dallas sports

Nick Friedell
Chicago sports writer

Ohm Youngmisuk
NY sports writer of 12 years, covers Clippers

Don't worry - I get that you know better than them and it's a conspiracy to promote LeBron.

Wow, that’s really an impressive list of ‘experts’

Good thing you know better since you know have covered the NBA for a good part of your life as your job.

Lol, you get triggered so easily these days.

Go take a 15 min break and jackoff to some bronny highlights

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:42 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:35 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:19 am

'96 rules would change how effective Steph is, as well. I imagine after one lane floater, Steph would be put on his ass by Pip or Rodman. Even teams today are able to hold Steph down if you turn him into a catch and shooter only. '20 Dubs are/were awful, even when he was healthy. '96 are better equipped to guard '17 Dubs than vice versa, but agree that the Dubs best chance at exposure would be pace.

When he was healthy their second option was still D'Angelo Russell. Decent scorer, but he's no Klay or KD.

I hate how people use the "put on his ass" as a way to exaggerate how great defensive tactics were 30 years ago. They were still fouls. Just not flagrant. Gotta sit Rodman the last 10 minutes of the half with 3 fouls, but he put him on his ass 3 times! That's great!

Well it was called differently then, which was a disadvantage for the offense.

And, while fouls aren’t good for the defense, it takes a toll mentally and physically on the guards. Most thinking changes, even if subconsciously after enduring being put on their ass all game.

To succeed against that, you gotta play at the rim a la Wade and Rose, and they got beat the F up, even in the 2000’s. Rules have changed to facilitate guard scoring, which sells jerseys.

This is true. Hand checking change is the biggest change since the 80s and 90s, but fouls were still fouls. The game was more physical just because people didn't get ejected for putting an elbow in an opponent's ribs like they would now. Offensive player still got free throws. Defensive player still got a foul. In this doc, there have been plenty of highlights of MJ getting and ones where contact was minimal at best, even early in his career.

The person triggered is the one talking about the panel and not the one telling someone to go jackoff.
Got it.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 10:08 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:42 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:35 am

When he was healthy their second option was still D'Angelo Russell. Decent scorer, but he's no Klay or KD.

I hate how people use the "put on his ass" as a way to exaggerate how great defensive tactics were 30 years ago. They were still fouls. Just not flagrant. Gotta sit Rodman the last 10 minutes of the half with 3 fouls, but he put him on his ass 3 times! That's great!

Well it was called differently then, which was a disadvantage for the offense.

And, while fouls aren’t good for the defense, it takes a toll mentally and physically on the guards. Most thinking changes, even if subconsciously after enduring being put on their ass all game.

To succeed against that, you gotta play at the rim a la Wade and Rose, and they got beat the F up, even in the 2000’s. Rules have changed to facilitate guard scoring, which sells jerseys.

This is true. Hand checking change is the biggest change since the 80s and 90s, but fouls were still fouls. The game was more physical just because people didn't get ejected for putting an elbow in an opponent's ribs like they would now. Offensive player still got free throws. Defensive player still got a foul. In this doc, there have been plenty of highlights of MJ getting and ones where contact was minimal at best, even early in his career.

Thought it was funny when Magic was giving MJ some shit when he touched him during a photo shoot.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:03 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 6:24 am Imo, career wise, the gap between 1/MJ and 2/Lebron is smaller than the gap between 2/Lebron and 3/whoever you rank 3. They are quite clearly the 2 best players ever by most peoples standards.

Now, that's not to say Wilt doesn't get an unfair shake in this because of the era in which he played....because I absolutely think he does....but many people/experts don't even put him in the top 4 or 5.

Which ‘experts’?

Well, I'm using the term "experts" loosely...

The most recent ESPN top 10 ranking that came out yesterday or the day before had Wilt at 6.

Whatever that's worth.

(Edit: sorry didn't see others responded to this already....posting and golfing is hard)

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:51 am The biggest one being the elimination of hand checking in 2004. It wasn't an accident that games became more wide open and scoring went up.

We discussed this yesterday a little bit, but did scoring really go up when comparing today to the 80s/90s?

I'm sure its gone up from the early 2000s to now...im not sure where to look for that stuff.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 10:11 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 10:08 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:42 am

Well it was called differently then, which was a disadvantage for the offense.

And, while fouls aren’t good for the defense, it takes a toll mentally and physically on the guards. Most thinking changes, even if subconsciously after enduring being put on their ass all game.

To succeed against that, you gotta play at the rim a la Wade and Rose, and they got beat the F up, even in the 2000’s. Rules have changed to facilitate guard scoring, which sells jerseys.

This is true. Hand checking change is the biggest change since the 80s and 90s, but fouls were still fouls. The game was more physical just because people didn't get ejected for putting an elbow in an opponent's ribs like they would now. Offensive player still got free throws. Defensive player still got a foul. In this doc, there have been plenty of highlights of MJ getting and ones where contact was minimal at best, even early in his career.

Thought it was funny when Magic was giving MJ some shit when he touched him during a photo shoot.

Me too.

MJ giving it back saying magic has never fouled out. I laughed so hard at that clip.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 10:45 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:03 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 6:24 am Imo, career wise, the gap between 1/MJ and 2/Lebron is smaller than the gap between 2/Lebron and 3/whoever you rank 3. They are quite clearly the 2 best players ever by most peoples standards.

Now, that's not to say Wilt doesn't get an unfair shake in this because of the era in which he played....because I absolutely think he does....but many people/experts don't even put him in the top 4 or 5.

Which ‘experts’?

Well, I'm using the term "experts" loosely...

The most recent ESPN top 10 ranking that came out yesterday or the day before had Wilt at 6.

Whatever that's worth.

(Edit: sorry didn't see others responded to this already....posting and golfing is hard)

Are you in Illinois? If so, where the fuck have you been golfing this morning? Where ever, good for you!
We've had some BAD weather in the city.

for all the shade thrown at Wilt’s GOAT status for playing against athletically inferior competition, not enough credit is given to his athletic prowess outside of basketball

Wilt's stats were ridiculous -- and he wasn't on a 'stacked' ( stacked at the time ) like the Celts.
And yes, maybe the greatest athlete to play basketball.