I think it further erodes the connection between the University and the teams. To what extent, I'm not sure, but it's going to have an impact. The weaker that connection, the less I'm interested.
What does this mean, on the ground, though? What do you think recruits have been choosing schools on in the last, I don't know, 40 years?
First of all, I haven't really liked the direction things have been going in the last, I don't know, 40 years, so there's that.
Second, I think it brings us a lot closer to having no reason for the student athletes to enroll. That means, they're not members of the University. And then the entire connection to the school. The reason I'm a fan, is lost.
I guess it's just a fundamental difference; to me, the connection isn't to the players, it's to the fans and the experience and the staff and the buildings and so on.
The players come and go, by design.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:22 pm
by Deleted User 89
maybe i’m being naive, but i don’t see this leading to the athletes not having to enroll
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:22 pm
by ousdahl
Huh?
I wasn’t trying to play gotcha. Don’t mean to get under your skin about it.
What does this mean, on the ground, though? What do you think recruits have been choosing schools on in the last, I don't know, 40 years?
First of all, I haven't really liked the direction things have been going in the last, I don't know, 40 years, so there's that.
Second, I think it brings us a lot closer to having no reason for the student athletes to enroll. That means, they're not members of the University. And then the entire connection to the school. The reason I'm a fan, is lost.
I guess it's just a fundamental difference; to me, the connection isn't to the players, it's to the fans and the experience and the staff and the buildings and so on.
The players come and go, by design.
If the players aren't students in the University, It's the KC Gushers. I don't watch the G-League.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:27 pm
by PhDhawk
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:22 pm
maybe i’m being naive, but i don’t see this leading to the athletes not having to enroll
I give it 6 months before Fish, CNB and sports media start complaining about how "it's unfair and bullshit that we expect these paid, professional athletes to continue this dog and pony show of making them enroll in class and pretend to be students. It's a charade! It's archaic! It's exploitative! It's racist!" Plus it'll be "better for the game" if there were no restrictions to practice times and practice limits.
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:07 pm
First of all, I haven't really liked the direction things have been going in the last, I don't know, 40 years, so there's that.
Second, I think it brings us a lot closer to having no reason for the student athletes to enroll. That means, they're not members of the University. And then the entire connection to the school. The reason I'm a fan, is lost.
I guess it's just a fundamental difference; to me, the connection isn't to the players, it's to the fans and the experience and the staff and the buildings and so on.
The players come and go, by design.
If the players aren't students in the University, It's the KC Gushers. I don't watch the G-League.
I just don't see a realistic scenario where the players do not attend the university but still play for the school.
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:22 pm
maybe i’m being naive, but i don’t see this leading to the athletes not having to enroll
I give it 6 months before Fish, CNB and sports media start complaining about how "it's unfair and bullshit that we expect these paid, professional athletes to continue this dog and pony show of making them enroll in class and pretend to be students. It's a charade! It's archaic! It's exploitative! It's racist!" Plus it'll be "better for the game" if there were no restrictions to practice times and practice limits.
Straw man, much?
Now I do absolutely think they should be able to, just like anyone else, major in things that are relevant to their career path.
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:22 pm
maybe i’m being naive, but i don’t see this leading to the athletes not having to enroll
I give it 6 months before Fish, CNB and sports media start complaining about how "it's unfair and bullshit that we expect these paid, professional athletes to continue this dog and pony show of making them enroll in class and pretend to be students. It's a charade! It's archaic! It's exploitative! It's racist!" Plus it'll be "better for the game" if there were no restrictions to practice times and practice limits.
aaaand the NCAA will come out and say, “actually, how they administer academics it’s up to North Carolina…”
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:22 pm
maybe i’m being naive, but i don’t see this leading to the athletes not having to enroll
I give it 6 months before Fish, CNB and sports media start complaining about how "it's unfair and bullshit that we expect these paid, professional athletes to continue this dog and pony show of making them enroll in class and pretend to be students. It's a charade! It's archaic! It's exploitative! It's racist!" Plus it'll be "better for the game" if there were no restrictions to practice times and practice limits.
Straw man, much?
Now I do absolutely think they should be able to, just like anyone else, major in things that are relevant to their career path.
Straw man! You've literally compared college athletes to indentured servants. I don't think my prediction is at out line with that.
I give it 6 months before Fish, CNB and sports media start complaining about how "it's unfair and bullshit that we expect these paid, professional athletes to continue this dog and pony show of making them enroll in class and pretend to be students. It's a charade! It's archaic! It's exploitative! It's racist!" Plus it'll be "better for the game" if there were no restrictions to practice times and practice limits.
Straw man, much?
Now I do absolutely think they should be able to, just like anyone else, major in things that are relevant to their career path.
Straw man! You've literally compared college athletes to indentured servants. I don't think my prediction is at out line with that.
Just so we're on the same page, here is exactly what I said, and I stand by it.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:23 am
Seems like there's some sort of historical precedent for this system, vis a vis passage to America, or payment of debts.
Fuck off.
I know it's not especially comfortable, but our country has a nasty history with labor exploitation, particularly of vulnerable/desperate groups.
"Amateurism," as applied in the modern economy, really does echo indentured servitude from the 1600s:
Servants typically worked four to seven years in exchange for passage, room, board, lodging and freedom dues. While the life of an indentured servant was harsh and restrictive, it wasn't slavery. There were laws that protected some of their rights.
Debates persist about the general characteristics of early indentured servants, but they were certainly primarily younger English men in search of new opportunities for wealth and advancement that were unavailable to them at home.
To be very clear - the life of an amateur college basketball player today is clearly worlds better than that of an indentured servant in the 1600s. No one is saying amateurism is killing college basketball players.
But the theme is the same - needy young people contracting out of economic and personal freedoms, in order to emerge from the period of service with better opportunities.
The thing is - nobody would agree to this if they didn't need to, or if there were better options immediately available. Which is sort of the point here.
Like it or not, what you are doing is asking players to choose to take less than they're worth. There can be no question about the implications of that on who plays college basketball.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:52 pm
by PhDhawk
Exactly. As long as you view going to college as a punishment for athletic young black men, you're going to continue to want them to not have to go to college, but still dunk a ball.
nobody would agree to this if they didn't need to,
I mean, that's a laughable statement. No one would go to college for free AND get the opportunity to play basketball for their school if they didn't need to??? That's ridiculous.
OK. I just don't think we're on the same page, with any of this.
I'm really not sure, how, if college ball was all the horrible things you claim it is, you could ever, morally, be a fan of it.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:04 pm
by pdub
"I'm really not sure, how, if college ball was all the horrible things you claim it is, you could ever, morally, be a fan of it."
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:22 pm
maybe i’m being naive, but i don’t see this leading to the athletes not having to enroll
I give it 6 months before Fish, CNB and sports media start complaining about how "it's unfair and bullshit that we expect these paid, professional athletes to continue this dog and pony show of making them enroll in class and pretend to be students. It's a charade! It's archaic! It's exploitative! It's racist!" Plus it'll be "better for the game" if there were no restrictions to practice times and practice limits.
If you're lumping me into this, then either I haven't done a good job explaining my position or you haven't been paying attention.
This is a reach.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:14 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:05 pm
Doesn’t that comment kinda cut both ways though?
and yet here we all are.
Some bitch about how things have been, some bitch about how things are changing, some do both. That applies to like, everything.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:28 pm
by PhDhawk
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:05 pm
Doesn’t that comment kinda cut both ways though?
and yet here we all are.
I'm saying my Fandom decreases the worse it gets.
At no point though have I compared it indentured servitude.
I can eat a steak, enjoy it, and still say "it was a little well done." What I don't do is say that bull fighting is animal torture, then park my butt down to watch a bull fight.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:32 pm
by Deleted User 89
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:05 pm
Doesn’t that comment kinda cut both ways though?
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:05 pm
Doesn’t that comment kinda cut both ways though?
and yet here we all are.
I'm saying my Fandom decreases the worse it gets.
At no point though have I compared it indentured servitude.
I can eat a steak, enjoy it, and still say "it was a little well done." What I don't do is say that bull fighting is animal torture, then park my butt down to watch a bull fight.
for some reason this comment reminded me of this:
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:35 pm
by pdub
PhD is the worst poster on this bored but I am to him on this subject as cnb is to jfish.
I'm pretty sure PhD and I have a suspicion this is the beginning of the end of college sports...because it won't just stop here.
Re: F the NCAA
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:53 pm
by Wiff
I just hired Mitch Lightfoot to mow my yard. How he does on this basic task will be determinative of where I come down on this whole issue.