Kansas Crimson

ahh, we've reached the "they had it coming" portion of the program.

Ignoring the deaths that occur through the manufacturing, processing and distributing portion of the drug program.

Ignoring the deaths that occur to others because/when somebody is on drugs.

Ignoring the person who thought they were taking a Xanax but instead got a fetanyl laced pill and died.

If you want to add alcohol to the drug list, those numbers skyrocket.

Not too mention, when looking at total deaths, many of the gun deaths fall into the suicide category, which, is similar to the drug users deaths (by the logic of..."they knew what they were doing")


wheres zsn and his pretzel logic?


All of this to again say, I dont want another war on drugs. Its just there seems to be a glaring blind spot with gun deaths that makes people not look at the whole.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:39 pm I think there are entirely too many guns in the United States. To start we need to get as many illegal guns off the street as we possibly can, and have stiff penalties for gun violence and possession of illegal/stolen firearms.

what enterprise do you suppose accounts for the vast majority of illegal guns?

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:11 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:39 pm I think there are entirely too many guns in the United States. To start we need to get as many illegal guns off the street as we possibly can, and have stiff penalties for gun violence and possession of illegal/stolen firearms.

what enterprise do you suppose accounts for the vast majority of illegal guns?

I hear you.

I read that over 350,000 guns were stolen/lost in 2020 or 2021....which seemed like a crazy stat to me.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:31 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:11 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:39 pm I think there are entirely too many guns in the United States. To start we need to get as many illegal guns off the street as we possibly can, and have stiff penalties for gun violence and possession of illegal/stolen firearms.

what enterprise do you suppose accounts for the vast majority of illegal guns?

I hear you.

I read that over 350,000 guns were stolen/lost in 2020 or 2021....which seemed like a crazy stat to me.

that is an insane stat....and I'm sure their is a lot of valid claims.

There is, however, a caveat to that stat. A prevalent thought in some rural areas is that the government is going to eventually come retrieve the firearms from citizens at some point (at least certain types when they eventually become banned). The thought is, that if they "Lose" them then they are no longer on the registry as being owned by them and therefore can no longer be seized.

I know a couple people that have "lost" a number of firearms in rafting mishaps and boating incidents. I highly suspect they were not, indeed, lost.


I dont know how large of percentage this would account for out of the 350k number but, its not 0.

How’s Merica’s drug stats compare to other countries?

How’s Merica’s gun stats compare to other countries?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:50 pm How’s Merica’s drug stats compare to other countries?

How’s Merica’s gun stats compare to other countries?

we’re #1 (right, mich?)

https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/article/am ... y-nations/

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:00 pm ahh, we've reached the "they had it coming" portion of the program.

Ignoring the deaths that occur through the manufacturing, processing and distributing portion of the drug program.

Ignoring the deaths that occur to others because/when somebody is on drugs.

Ignoring the person who thought they were taking a Xanax but instead got a fetanyl laced pill and died.

If you want to add alcohol to the drug list, those numbers skyrocket.

Not too mention, when looking at total deaths, many of the gun deaths fall into the suicide category, which, is similar to the drug users deaths (by the logic of..."they knew what they were doing")


wheres zsn and his pretzel logic?


All of this to again say, I dont want another war on drugs. Its just there seems to be a glaring blind spot with gun deaths that makes people not look at the whole.

I didn't intend for anything I said to imply I feel/felt they had it coming. Nor did I (or do I) intend to imply I ignore any deaths that are an extension of anything and everything that is (and may be) drug related.

I'll add that I don't ignore some people purposely take drugs to kill themself - just as you stated, some people take a gun and shoot and kill themself.

We have both gun and drug problems in this country - and often mental health and other extenuating issues play a major role in these problems.
I'm sorry, while I believe illegal drugs, and guns, and mental health issues will always exist, I don't think saying too bad so sad and simply giving up because we feel it's a lost cause is in the best interest/s of this country. I say that as someone who has lost very close friends and family members to drugs, guns, and suicide.
Of course there is no simple solution and I don't pretend to have the answer/s but I consider even one less drug related death, gun related death, mental health related death a win - so I am open to pretty much anything and everything people come up with in regards helping to address and alleviate the issues.

There are too many guns in the U.S. to completely prevent gun violence in any given state, the experts said. Gun violence is continuing to affect a large number of Californians, but at much lower rates than other states.

While 3,449 people died from gun violence in California in 2020, the state still has one of the lowest gun death rates in the country at 8.5 deaths per 100,000 people -- about 37% lower than the national average, according to data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Gun homicides in California, at a rate of 3.9 per 100,000 people, is much lower than Texas' rate of 6.1 per 100,000 people, figures from Everytown shows.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/experts-e ... d=96665000

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:48 pm its disguised as candy, its laced in minor, somewhat harmless drugs.
and fentanyl isn't even the path I was trying to go down with my comments. It's its own, seperate, path.

So I think we agree that it is also something that we need to work on as a nation, which we seem to be trying to do. We can certainly start a thread to discuss the difference measures taken/not taken to reduce those numbers. It's refreshing that there seems to be a bipartisan effort to reduce those numbers unlike the current nonsense happening with the efforts to reduce the number of deaths to gun violence. Probably has something to do with politicizing gun legislation as some sort of American Freedom.

This morning in Israel the hypothetical "good guy with a gun" argument pro-gun folks like to make actually happened. A Palestinian kid started shooting people, and an Israeli citizen carrying a gun shot him.

I think I like the gun control rules there. Which is, you can buy and openly carry a gun, including semi-automatic rifles, as long as you have a permit. But it's way harder to get a permit, and penalties for carrying or owning a gun without one are much higher.

I wonder if that would work here. It seems like it could be politically viable too? Maybe not, I know the NRA would be against it.

The NRA is a gun manufacturer lobbying group. Left to themselves they’ll make the forced-birthers look good! They want nothing short of a law that says everyone must own at least ten firearms and carry four. The day the NRA goes defunct should be celebrated as Independence Day II.

Mjl wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:40 pm This morning in Israel the hypothetical "good guy with a gun" argument pro-gun folks like to make actually happened. A Palestinian kid started shooting people, and an Israeli citizen carrying a gun shot him.

I think I like the gun control rules there. Which is, you can buy and openly carry a gun, including semi-automatic rifles, as long as you have a permit. But it's way harder to get a permit, and penalties for carrying or owning a gun without one are much higher.

I wonder if that would work here. It seems like it could be politically viable too? Maybe not, I know the NRA would be against it.

Yes, Netanyahu and the police are encouraging citizens who have permits to carry their guns with them in public. Problem is it's not so simple to know who is a "good guy" and who is a "bad guy" in Israel and my guess is there will be more "good guys" being killed by other "good guys" who assumed they were "bad guys". Hard for a citizen to really know for sure who is a credible threat - or not - and at what points does it become legal vs. illegal to shoot and kill another person?

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:44 am "Every thread"

JFC

Have you noticed what all of us can truly count on in EVERY thread?

again, when I first read the "every thread" comment, I took it as some self-aware chance for humility; a prompt to personally try to not douche it up around here so much.

I encourage everyone else to do the same.

"Please chill"

I predict that nothing will be done that controls firearm violence in this our land of the free. Mark me.

If you had Michigan State, Monday, Evening, on your card you’re a winner!!!!!

Freedom to be a mass shooter is valued more than the freedom to not be shot.

Greatest. Country. Ever.

University telling students to “run, hide, fight”

OF COURSE there is a ton of division and stupidity being spewed over the MSU shooting that I have seen on the inter-webs.
Big reason why I feel we will never unite as a country and figure out a way to make "mass" shootings a rarity.

Fundamentally, Citizens United has everything completely fucked.