Let’s have a war!

[ousdahl]

I’ve repeatedly condemned Putin. I want the Russian invasion to be done with asap, not dragged out with no end in sight!

The only data I recall being provided about Nazis in Ukraine is a Wikipedia page citing some Azov leader claiming “only” like 10% of Azov are Nazis. If there’s more I’m forgetting, please refresh my memory.

In contrast, I’ve seen an awful lot of disregarding all the evidence I’ve provided of the Nazi problem being much bigger and more widespread than anyone would like to acknowledge.

And while I guess no one claimed Nazis didn’t exist in Ukraine, plenty have claimed Nazis in Ukraine is actually Russian propaganda, even if Nazis do exist they’re not that big a deal, there are Nazis in every country, maybe that Ukrainian officer’s swastika jewelry is actually just a Tibetan good luck charm, like for real who cares, etc.

And if I need to say so (again) - yes, I think Nazis among our own LEO and military is very much a problem, too. The difference is not whether I think it’s a problem, but whether it would be OK for our own LEO and military to display nazi symbols on their uniforms.

It would totally NOT be OK, right?

If you encountered a cop with like a sonnenrad patch on his shirt or a swastika tat on his arm, you’d be concerned, right?

So why NOT be concerned when Ukrainians do it - while also brandishing weapons provided by you and me?

[KUTradition]

https://jewishjournal.com/news/worldwid ... ld-war-ii/

[KUTradition]

https://cisac.fair.stanford.edu/mapping ... -battalion

https://factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts ... g-ukraine/

[KUTradition]

https://www.publicethics.org/post/the-m ... aggression

[Mjl]

https://jewishjournal.com/news/worldwid ... ld-war-ii/

Yep. I think I said this about 100 pages back. It's frankly offensive (and of course disingenuous) to use anti-Nazism in the context of the Russian invasion.

Eastern European neo-Nazism is an issue, and should be addressed separately. But it's not state-sponsored and is nothing, at all whatsoever in any way, comparable to Nazi Germany.

[ousdahl]

Thanks for those links. In the interest of just trying to get along, and without making another futile attempt at discussing and “disingenuous” et al, maybe it makes me worry a little less about just what exactly what kinda characters were giving weapons to in Ukraine. I want it to, at least.

[Sparko]

Actually, Russia has been the leading sponsor of far-right Nazis for some time as part of their effort to de-stabilize Europe and the United States. So, there is no mystery. The Russians have problems with only some Nazis. The ones they don't control. But as MJL said, it is a separate issue to be addressed

[Mjl]

Nazi also means something different to Russians than it does to us. To Americans it tends to be most closely associated with genocide. To Russians it moreso means anti-Russian. They're obsessed with their victory in WW2

[Sparko]

They no longer care what brand of brown shirt is worn. Prighozin has SS lapel pins tatooed on his clavicles.

[ousdahl]

sooo Iran vs. Taliban who ya got?

[TDub]

the rubber band man of course.

hes wild as the taliban

9 in his left

.45 in his other hand.

[jfish26]

It's absolutely NOT merely coincidental that our agreement here followed (1) GBR/France agreeing to send advanced missiles, and (2) Russia specifically targeting the Patriot batteries.

The rubes (and their handlers) don't want to admit it, but our stepwise involvement here has been a solid approach.

Agreed. The US has insisted on other countries sharing some of the burden and it has been the right way to go about this. This isn't just the US vs. Russia.

One of the things Biden is pretty good at is old-fashioned “underpromise and overdeliver.” And doing it by behind the scenes maneuvering and coalition-building.

I’m watching the debt ceiling stuff. It would be fairly typical for a plan to materialize seemingly out of thin air (when the reality is that the plan is deftly organized).

Cough.

[Sparko]

Cough recognized and seconded

[ousdahl]

Ukraine-Russia border ‘demilitarised zone’ floated for peace deal

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023 ... peace-deal

A demilitarised zone between 100 and 120 kilometres wide (62 to 75 miles) should be established in Russian border territory with Ukraine as part of any post-war settlement, an adviser to Ukraine’s presidential office has said.

“To ensure real security for residents of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Zaporizhzhia, Luhansk, and Donetsk regions and protect them from shelling, it will be necessary to introduce a demilitarisation zone of 100-120km,” Podolyak wrote in a tweet on Monday…

An aide to Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy also said on Monday that Ukraine had no interest in any ceasefire that locks in Russian territorial gains.

Chief diplomatic adviser Ihor Zhovkva also pushed back against international peace initiatives from China, Brazil, the Vatican and South Africa, saying that the time for mediation with Moscow had passed.

[ousdahl]

I’d be for a demilitarized zone. The bigger the better!

My concern is, I dunno if a demilitarized zone on the Russian side would necessarily do much toward the security of eastern Ukrainian areas like Luhansk and Donetsk.

IIRC these areas were already independent republics that didn’t wanna be part of Ukraine anyway, which prompted the Azov paramilitaries to go all militant on those regions for years now anyway, with weapons paid for by you and me.

Speaking of weapons paid for by you and me, I continue to be bummed that there are so many foreign powers calling for a Russia/Ukraine peace deal, except for the United States.

[KUTradition]

IIRC these areas were already independent republics that didn’t wanna be part of Ukraine anyway, which prompted the Azov paramilitaries to go all militant on those regions for years now anyway, with weapons paid for by you and me.


i don’t think this is a fair or accurate representation

[TDub]

IIRC these areas were already independent republics that didn’t wanna be part of Ukraine anyway, which prompted the Azov paramilitaries to go all militant on those regions for years now anyway, with weapons paid for by you and me.


i don’t think this is a fair or accurate representation

since when has that ever stopped him from proclaiming such "truths"

[ousdahl]

Care to elaborate?

If you would please, I’m here for it.

Trust me, if you guys can give me a half donut’s worth of perspective that the whole separatist republics thing isn’t really much of a thing, and Ukraine really is one big homogenous nation full of folks who all agree on the same freedom-loving polls at the mall, and they’ve been using all those weapons we’ve furnished for nothing more than to like help little old ladies cross the street, I’d be glad to hear it.

For real, if I’m being unfair or inaccurate, help me understand why!

[KUTradition]

IIRC these areas were already independent republics that didn’t wanna be part of Ukraine anyway, which prompted the Azov paramilitaries to go all militant on those regions for years now anyway, with weapons paid for by you and me.


i don’t think this is a fair or accurate representation

since when has that ever stopped him from proclaiming such "truths"

i don’t get it

a quick google search of “history” of those regions yields ample perspectives that offer a notably different narrative

for hundreds of years, through the czars, stalin, the soviets, and now putin, there has been repeated attempts to wrestle that region away from Ukraine and ethnic Ukrainians

[KUTradition]

Care to elaborate?

If you would please, I’m here for it.

Trust me, if you guys can give me a half donut’s worth of perspective that the whole separatist republics thing isn’t really much of a thing, and Ukraine really is one big homogenous nation full of folks who all agree on the same freedom-loving polls at the mall, and they’ve been using all those weapons we’ve furnished for nothing more than to like help little old ladies cross the street, I’d be glad to hear it.

care to google?

seriously, dude…do the work (if you actually care), and research the history of the region

don’t offer an ignorant take and then ask and expect us to convince you otherwise