Kansas Crimson

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:40 pm We need mitch and Dave to be serviceable high energy interchangable pieces. Defend, rebound, and easy buckets.. The strength of this team is play making and versatility. Playing offense through a center is becoming an outdated concept

Agreed.

We have 4 bigs to fill 40min: Dave Mitch KJ and Clemence....if we can just get mediocre play out of whoever plays on a given night that is really all we need. Och CB and Remy can score plenty. We just need energy, defense, rebounding, and finishing the easy baskets around the rim instead of fumbling the ball out of bounds or spazzing out a missing a bunny.

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:41 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:38 pm I think Cam wanted the red shirt more than we did.

He did. He was a d2 guy that never expected to get a opportunity like kansas. He was smart enough to try to maximize it

Thats really what it felt like to me hearing him talk about it. It wasn't even about playing time, he knows he won't play much next year either, it's about enjoying the experience and becoming the best version of himself he can be on and off the court.

If you're elite 8 good then you've got a chance. The top 4 seeds have made it to the final 4 a grand total of 1 time ever. We are clearly 1 of the best 8 teams.

sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:35 pm

I don't understand how you can try to statistically compare a starter against his backup on defense quantitatively. The fact Dave is starting and usually finishing means he's playing against starters more.

Dave is our best defensive big. He needs to just not completely suck in the other facets because we're going to need that D.

One plays 18 minutes the other plays 13 minutes. It's not like one is playing 28min and the other 10min. They are close enough that the comparisons are valid. Not to mention Mitch has closed a game or 2 for us this year.

But i do agree Dave visually seems to be the better defender.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:25 pm One plays 18 minutes the other plays 13 minutes. It's not like one is playing 28min and the other 10min. They are close enough that the comparisons are valid. Not to mention Mitch has closed a game or 2 for us this year.

It's not number of minutes, it's who those minutes are against. And exactly, Mitch has only closed a game or two, and not started any.

Mjl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:12 pm

sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:35 pm

I don't understand how you can try to statistically compare a starter against his backup on defense quantitatively. The fact Dave is starting and usually finishing means he's playing against starters more.

Dave is our best defensive big. He needs to just not completely suck in the other facets because we're going to need that D.

We know that you always need the D.


I also thought the same thing about Mitch always going up against 2nd lines, and also 2nd lines from not great teams this year so far.

I think it's really hard to statistically measure individual defense to begin with.

This turned into a D measuring contest.

Mjl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:08 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:25 pm One plays 18 minutes the other plays 13 minutes. It's not like one is playing 28min and the other 10min. They are close enough that the comparisons are valid. Not to mention Mitch has closed a game or 2 for us this year.

It's not number of minutes, it's who those minutes are against. And exactly, Mitch has only closed a game or two, and not started any.

I get what you're saying.

But if Dave's only playing 18min that means there are a lot of minutes against the other teams starters being played by our other bigs. Most starters play a lot more than 18mins.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:43 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:12 pm

sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:35 pm

I don't understand how you can try to statistically compare a starter against his backup on defense quantitatively. The fact Dave is starting and usually finishing means he's playing against starters more.

Dave is our best defensive big. He needs to just not completely suck in the other facets because we're going to need that D.

We know that you always need the D.

Lol, damnit, that didn't come out right.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:40 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:37 amWe didn't need another ball handler against george mason. All we needed to do was knock down our normal shots.

I don't know how one could be convinced that those two things aren't related.


Regardless, what can't be argued against is that Harris played poorly where he was the lone PG.

yeah. harris becomes really average if he isn't in there with a more explosive playmaker. dajuan just isnt as quick or skilled to fill the role as lone PG. like remy (or I think yesefu can turn into that)

but dajuan plays great D.. takes care of the ball.. is unselfish.. knows our offense. he is a good compliment to our stars

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:48 am The answer isn't Yesufu at this point. Remy and DH are our small guards. Remy CB and Och can all play 32mpg. Self wants DH around 25. So for the vast majority of the game and in closing time we will likely have Remy and DH out there. 15mpg will be Jalen at the 4 with only 1 of the small guards out there, the rest of Jalens minutes will have 2 guards and mix and match with Och and CB.

Still think yall are sleeping on yesefu. he hasnt found a comfort level with these guys (and self) yet. the returning guys have better chemistry together and understand selfs offense better. but yesefu might be the most explosive player on the team and can absolutely get buckets. If he finds a rhythm and starts guarding a little better, watch out. same with JCL to an extent. Love dajuan, but this team's ceiling doesn't involve him playing 30 mpg this year

I would disagree about dajuan except fot the last game. Against better guards he scuffled at times. Lacked court awareness a few times. Puzzling.

I don't dislike Yesufu or DH...but i am ready for some NBA caliber guards again....as well as some NBA caliber BIGS.

Doesn't have to be 1 and done types, becuase those are trickier to predict and incorporate into the team. Och and CB evolved into NBA caliber players. DMac sure seemed like he would coming in to college, but he hasn't lived up to the HS ranking.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:12 am I don't dislike Yesufu or DH...but i am ready for some NBA caliber guards again....as well as some NBA caliber BIGS.

Doesn't have to be 1 and done types, becuase those are trickier to predict and incorporate into the team. Och and CB evolved into NBA caliber players. DMac sure seemed like he would coming in to college, but he hasn't lived up to the HS ranking.

Yesefu is an NBA caliber athlete. explosive. think he has a 43 inch vert. hes just small. stocky. reminds me a ton of kyle lowry. nobody thought lowry would turn into an all star caliber guy coming out of college.

yesefus problem is here is he doesnt understand bill selfs offense the way the returning guys do. self has always favored experience. self is a system coach, his system works a lot better with guys who play exactly the way he wants, which comes with experience. We are deep enough that yesefu doesn't have to play and the minutes/opportunity to learn to play selfs game hasn't been there. he went from being a blossoming star to a guy who is questioning his role and place and thats rattled him a bit. hurt his confidence. also his defense isn't very good yet, cause they don't guard at drake the way you have to guard at KU, but the tools are there

hopefully he stays patient and earns some minutes. keeps learning the system and playing selfs way. yesefu is wayyyy more talented than dajuan will ever be

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:04 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:12 am I don't dislike Yesufu or DH...but i am ready for some NBA caliber guards again....as well as some NBA caliber BIGS.

Doesn't have to be 1 and done types, becuase those are trickier to predict and incorporate into the team. Och and CB evolved into NBA caliber players. DMac sure seemed like he would coming in to college, but he hasn't lived up to the HS ranking.

Yesefu is an NBA caliber athlete. explosive. think he has a 43 inch vert. hes just small. stocky. reminds me a ton of kyle lowry. nobody thought lowry would turn into an all star caliber guy coming out of college.

yesefus problem is here is he doesnt understand bill selfs offense the way the returning guys do. self has always favored experience. self is a system coach, his system works a lot better with guys who play exactly the way he wants, which comes with experience. We are deep enough that yesefu doesn't have to play and the minutes/opportunity to learn to play selfs game hasn't been there. he went from being a blossoming star to a guy who is questioning his role and place and thats rattled him a bit. hurt his confidence. also his defense isn't very good yet, cause they don't guard at drake the way you have to guard at KU, but the tools are there

Lowry isn't explosive at all fwiw. But they are the same height weight. But Lowry was a 2 and done, he was already in the NBA at this stage in his career, and a top 30 player coming out of HS. A much better prospect than Yesufu at all stages in their careers. Not really comparable at all imo.

I don't know what "NBA athlete" is really worth for guys like Yesufu. People said Enaruna and TGF were "NBA athletes" too. Diallo. Cliff. Then you've got guys like the twins who could barely dunk when they got to college who are having great NBA careers. It's not about jumping high. It's more about being good at basketball.

I think it'll be an awfully tough road for Yesufu to get to the NBA as a 6ft PG who is probably more of a 2 guard.

And Yesufu couldn't even beat out the guys ahead of him at Drake until injuries occured. That's when he got his shot. And he definitely made the most of it. Put up big numbers and got invited to Kansas. I think he can be a good college player. I think any NBA hopes are probably a bit far fetched unless he becomes a lights out shooter from deep, which is currently career 34% (25% at KU), and a lockdown defender.

Yesufu should focus on staying ahead of Pettiford and learning how to play alongside DH for future seasons. That's his path forward. He's not beating out Remy or DH this season imo. And it's not just due to not knowing Self's system. He's had as much or more time than Remy to learn.

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:13 pm hopefully he stays patient and earns some minutes. keeps learning the system and playing selfs way. yesefu is wayyyy more talented than dajuan will ever be

I agree with all that.

I was 100% against DH this year preseason, but he's our best option for those 25ish min this year.

He needs to be patient. It's paid off for guys before.