Kansas Crimson

Mistakes were made on both sides.

Running was a mistake. Mistaking a taser was too.

But the severity of the mistakes are not comparable, considering only of of those has fatal consequences.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:01 am Mistakes were made on both sides.

Running was a mistake. Mistaking a taser was too.

But the severity of the mistakes are not comparable, considering only of of those has fatal consequences.

Running is illegal, though.

It's again the micro vs. macro thing--what are we arguing? In the macro, policing needs a giant overhaul. Trust is a two-way street and right now the traffic flow on that street is a giant fucking disaster.

Yeah, running is illegal.

So is shooting someone! Even if accidentally!


...unless you’re a cop.

(Btw, the cop who shot Jacob Blake 7 times in the back just got cleared to return to work...)

i know it’s been mentioned in here before, though not in this thread

but, there is a sad irony in that this situation - black men and cops - hasn’t really changed much since both were first in the US as [escaped] slaves and slave patrols

given that history, and the fucked up race relations since then, it seems to me that he onus is in the cops to prove that they are actually here to serve and protect EVERYONE

I think that is a massive generalization and wildly incorrect statement.
( with full respect to you Trad )

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:05 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:01 am Mistakes were made on both sides.

Running was a mistake. Mistaking a taser was too.

But the severity of the mistakes are not comparable, considering only of of those has fatal consequences.

Running is illegal, though.

It's again the micro vs. macro thing--what are we arguing? In the macro, policing needs a giant overhaul. Trust is a two-way street and right now the traffic flow on that street is a giant fucking disaster.

I can work with this.
No snark, all reason.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:09 amSo is shooting someone! Even if accidentally!

This as a blanket statement is not true, but not that relevant.


Police do have powers/privileges that citizens do not. Sure, maybe some of those need to be analyzed, but it is usually the abuse of those that are the bigger problem.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:11 am (Btw, the cop who shot Jacob Blake 7 times in the back just got cleared to return to work...)

I do see this as a problem that Blue Lives Matter needs to better address.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:19 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:11 am (Btw, the cop who shot Jacob Blake 7 times in the back just got cleared to return to work...)

I do see this as a problem that Blue Lives Matter needs to better address.

Which they would, if it was about law enforcement at all.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:16 am I think that is a massive generalization and wildly incorrect statement.
( with full respect to you Trad )

lol...which part?

edit: obviously things are “better” now, but there are still calls for black men, who are fearing for their lives, to just comply and hope all goes swimmingly

is it really that much different?

Despite the hot takes media ( don't lump me in with lob/walrus just because I think the popular news channels have become trash ) the country ( albeit just experiencing one shitty orange speed bump ) and the world is continuing to painfully ( and maybe not as fast as most would like ) progress as a society when it comes to acceptance.

If an officer were to lynch a black man in 1870, he would have been able to do so with no consequence, with no mention really. And the common public around the USA wouldn't generally think much of it. Today certainly no one is being hung without consequence. And when a black person is shot by an officer it is far more news worthy ( though, again, there are good news channels and trash ) than it would have been even 10-20 years ago. Photography and video has brought evidence of wrong doings to light. Police are getting training specific to bias. There is body cam video.

Is there more work to be done? Of course.
Is it the same as it was in the 19th century? Of course not.

Charges filed.

Second Degree Manslaughter.

I would also add, maybe most importantly, because we are becoming more accepting generally, that more officers are good people and try to do a good job generally. This isn't excusing the problem of individuals, and i'd say moreso in the police profession than most professions, targeting/injuring/killing black people because they are full on racist pieces of shit.

Returning a comment like this with 'bad apple/s' in the sentence is just playing the mind mush game - much like 'both sides'. Those key terms that some love to hastily and gleefully type out as responses are drab.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:49 am Charges filed.

Second Degree Manslaughter.

Justly so.

The big term will be "culpable negligence." If I am not mistaken, "culpable negligence" in Minnesota has been defined to mean that the actions need to include "recklessness."

I have a very hard time thinking the body cam can get a jury there. But, perhaps a jury acquittal is better for everyone than not charging.

I'd say the act of pulling out a gun and firing it point blank into an unarmed person who isn't a direct threat is reckless -- but beyond a reasonable doubt has entered the chat.

Is there any example of a civilian fighting a manslaughter charge with “oops sorry, grabbed the wrong weapon.”

I know it’s different for LEO and all, but...why should it be?*

Can she argue any kind of a “fear for my life” here? (Prob unlikely)

Will there be a material question of whether even a taser was necessary in this situation? (Prob not)

*In a legal system that values life more than anything, why should cops get so much of a pass? Would cops maybe be more hesitant to use deadly force if, say, they knew they’d likely be held to the same criminal threshold as anyone else?

Isn’t there a reason why fleeing police carries a much lighter sentence than manslaughter?

I think officers should be liable for unjust injury and death.
It's also too idyllic to think that there doesn't need to be an organization in the USA that keeps the peace/protects the law that has the right of more force than the typical citizen.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:04 pm Is there any example of a civilian fighting a manslaughter charge with “oops sorry, grabbed the wrong weapon.”

If someone is taking a life with a weapon, the most prevalent situation where there may be a complete defense is self-defense. Some other classic scenarios of taking lives with "tools" where you may have an acquittal is vehicular manslaughter and hunting accidents, so the wrong weapon thing wouldn't apply. But, again, we are just glossing over the fact that she is a police officer.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:04 pmI know it’s different for LEO and all, but...why should it be?*

Ah, here we go. Because we do want/need some kind of protection for the public and there is a need for a sliding scale of how much leeway we give our government in protecting the public. Using deadly force to prevent other death is a starting point.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:04 pmCan she argue any kind of a “fear for my life” here? (Prob unlikely)

Doesn't look like it from the cam footage. He was trying to run away and was unarmed.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:04 pmWill there be a material question of whether even a taser was necessary in this situation? (Prob not)

Tasers are not thought to be lethal force, and current law and police policy would allow her to use her taser in this scenario.