Kansas Crimson

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:33 am**

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:32 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 am
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:15 pm Butker is 18-20 from 40-49 yards in the last 2 years.
You have around a 90% chance of winning.
It was the right call.
So, among the reasons it's stupid to just keep citing this stat as support for playing for three...it is pretty clear that CEH was going to take a loss on the play on which he fumbled. Which would have moved the field goal attempt to at least 50 yards. Butker is 68.4% for his career from 50+.

"But it's right at 50 yards!," you might say. Well, that's why the 40-49 rate probably isn't all that instructive either.

Stupid to not try to move the ball down the field when you have Mahomes at the helm.
I was 2nd down. If he gets tackled for a loss, maybe they have Mahomes throw an out for 15 yards and keep it moving.

It's a bummer the Baltimore defender made an elite play but other NFL teams have some really talented players as well. It happens.

Maybe this, maybe that. What's clear is they went into a shell prematurely.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:35 am**

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 am
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:15 pm Butker is 18-20 from 40-49 yards in the last 2 years.
You have around a 90% chance of winning.
It was the right call.
So, among the reasons it's stupid to just keep citing this stat as support for playing for three...it is pretty clear that CEH was going to take a loss on the play on which he fumbled. Which would have moved the field goal attempt to at least 50 yards. Butker is 68.4% for his career from 50+.

"But it's right at 50 yards!," you might say. Well, that's why the 40-49 rate probably isn't all that instructive either.

Stupid to not try to move the ball down the field when you have Mahomes at the helm.

Dumb.
I don't think the Chiefs were expecting to loose yards on the running play.
CEH had gained 4 ypc up to that point -- i'm guessing maybe they thought he could get half that?
3rd and 1, Balty uses it's timeout, put the ball in Mahomes hands.

Or they get a first down on 2nd and 3.
Now you are cooking.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:37 am**

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:32 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 am
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:15 pm Butker is 18-20 from 40-49 yards in the last 2 years.
You have around a 90% chance of winning.
It was the right call.
So, among the reasons it's stupid to just keep citing this stat as support for playing for three...it is pretty clear that CEH was going to take a loss on the play on which he fumbled. Which would have moved the field goal attempt to at least 50 yards. Butker is 68.4% for his career from 50+.

"But it's right at 50 yards!," you might say. Well, that's why the 40-49 rate probably isn't all that instructive either.

Stupid to not try to move the ball down the field when you have Mahomes at the helm.
I was 2nd down. If he gets tackled for a loss, maybe they have Mahomes throw an out for 15 yards and keep it moving.

It's a bummer the Baltimore defender made an elite play but other NFL teams have some really talented players as well. It happens.

Right.
Thuney missed a block.
CEH didn't secure the ball.

Sucks. But it was the right call.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:39 am**

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:32 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 am
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:15 pm Butker is 18-20 from 40-49 yards in the last 2 years.
You have around a 90% chance of winning.
It was the right call.
So, among the reasons it's stupid to just keep citing this stat as support for playing for three...it is pretty clear that CEH was going to take a loss on the play on which he fumbled. Which would have moved the field goal attempt to at least 50 yards. Butker is 68.4% for his career from 50+.

"But it's right at 50 yards!," you might say. Well, that's why the 40-49 rate probably isn't all that instructive either.

Stupid to not try to move the ball down the field when you have Mahomes at the helm.
I was 2nd down. If he gets tackled for a loss, maybe they have Mahomes throw an out for 15 yards and keep it moving.

It's a bummer the Baltimore defender made an elite play but other NFL teams have some really talented players as well. It happens.

If you can get 15 yards at ease, like you seem to think with that rationale, then do that instead of handing the ball off.

I listen to the new KCSN (Kansas City Sports Network) that BJ Kissel founded and he brought over 3 super fans that know ball to do a podcast a few times a week. They brought up a good point last night. If you score a TD, you force Baltimore into becoming one-dimensional, and not in Lamar's wheelhouse. You score, go for 2 and go up by 7, Baltimore has to go score. Not a FG but score a TD. Yet they seem to rely on Butker when they have the BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD at your disposal, and you hand the ball off. As a players coach, you should never take the ball out of your best players hands. And that's exactly what Reid did.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:39 am**

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:37 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:32 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 am

So, among the reasons it's stupid to just keep citing this stat as support for playing for three...it is pretty clear that CEH was going to take a loss on the play on which he fumbled. Which would have moved the field goal attempt to at least 50 yards. Butker is 68.4% for his career from 50+.

"But it's right at 50 yards!," you might say. Well, that's why the 40-49 rate probably isn't all that instructive either.

Stupid to not try to move the ball down the field when you have Mahomes at the helm.
I was 2nd down. If he gets tackled for a loss, maybe they have Mahomes throw an out for 15 yards and keep it moving.

It's a bummer the Baltimore defender made an elite play but other NFL teams have some really talented players as well. It happens.
Right.
Thuney missed a block.
CEH didn't secure the ball.

Sucks. But it was the right call.

We'll just agree to disagree.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:40 am**

Butker is one of the best kickers in the world.
It was 2nd and 3.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:40 am**

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:39 am
pdub wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:37 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:32 am
I was 2nd down. If he gets tackled for a loss, maybe they have Mahomes throw an out for 15 yards and keep it moving.

It's a bummer the Baltimore defender made an elite play but other NFL teams have some really talented players as well. It happens.
Right.
Thuney missed a block.
CEH didn't secure the ball.

Sucks. But it was the right call.
We'll just agree to disagree.

I understand that.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:44 am**

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:39 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:32 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 am

So, among the reasons it's stupid to just keep citing this stat as support for playing for three...it is pretty clear that CEH was going to take a loss on the play on which he fumbled. Which would have moved the field goal attempt to at least 50 yards. Butker is 68.4% for his career from 50+.

"But it's right at 50 yards!," you might say. Well, that's why the 40-49 rate probably isn't all that instructive either.

Stupid to not try to move the ball down the field when you have Mahomes at the helm.
I was 2nd down. If he gets tackled for a loss, maybe they have Mahomes throw an out for 15 yards and keep it moving.

It's a bummer the Baltimore defender made an elite play but other NFL teams have some really talented players as well. It happens.
If you can get 15 yards at ease, like you seem to think with that rationale, then do that instead of handing the ball off.

I listen to the new KCSN (Kansas City Sports Network) that BJ Kissel founded and he brought over 3 super fans that know ball to do a podcast a few times a week. They brought up a good point last night. If you score a TD, you force Baltimore into becoming one-dimensional, and not in Lamar's wheelhouse. You score, go for 2 and go up by 7, Baltimore has to go score. Not a FG but score a TD. Yet they seem to rely on Butker when they have the BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD at your disposal, and you hand the ball off. As a players coach, you should never take the ball out of your best players hands. And that's exactly what Reid did.

I agree with this sentiment.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:46 am**

"If you score a TD, you force Baltimore into becoming one-dimensional, and not in Lamar's wheelhouse."

If you score a FG, with zero seconds left, you force Baltimore into walking onto the field to shake your hand in defeat or just walking to the locker room.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:47 am**

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:33 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:32 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 am

So, among the reasons it's stupid to just keep citing this stat as support for playing for three...it is pretty clear that CEH was going to take a loss on the play on which he fumbled. Which would have moved the field goal attempt to at least 50 yards. Butker is 68.4% for his career from 50+.

"But it's right at 50 yards!," you might say. Well, that's why the 40-49 rate probably isn't all that instructive either.

Stupid to not try to move the ball down the field when you have Mahomes at the helm.
I was 2nd down. If he gets tackled for a loss, maybe they have Mahomes throw an out for 15 yards and keep it moving.

It's a bummer the Baltimore defender made an elite play but other NFL teams have some really talented players as well. It happens.
Maybe this, maybe that. What's clear is they went into a shell prematurely.

The only thing that is clear is that the Baltimore defender made a better play than the offensive lineman across from him and than CEH. That's it. Without that fumble, it's probably no different than the half dozen or so other GW drives put together by Mahomes and Reid. We're so spoiled by how frequently they succeed at them that we seem to be out of sorts when they fail.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:05 am**

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:46 am "If you score a TD, you force Baltimore into becoming one-dimensional, and not in Lamar's wheelhouse."

If you score a FG, with zero seconds left, you force Baltimore into walking onto the field to shake your hand in defeat or just walking to the locker room.

Settling for a 50-yarder there is not the right approach. That's the point.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:06 am**

pdub going all illy and dying on this hill

it’s entirely possible, and likely, that either call (CEH or Mahomie) was the right call

it doesn’t have to be one or the other. people woulda second guessed it regardless when the the result was an L

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:09 am**

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:06 am pdub going all illy and dying on this hill

it’s entirely possible, and likely, that either call (CEH or Mahomie) was the right call

it doesn’t have to be one or the other. people woulda second guessed it regardless when the the result was an L

If the ball was ten yards farther up the field, I don't think the second-guessing would be as justified. 50 is too long to go into turtle-mode for.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:12 am**

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:06 am pdub going all illy and dying on this hill

it’s entirely possible, and likely, that either call (CEH or Mahomie) was the right call

it doesn’t have to be one or the other. people woulda second guessed it regardless when the the result was an L

It would be dying on a hill if there wasn't good argument.
There's no death here -- just different philosophies -- people here are arguing it was the wrong call, I am arguing ( and twocoach ) it's the right call.
I'd prefer to completely take the ball out of Baltimore's hands.

I think you aren't factoring the down.
If it was 3rd down and 3, I would 100% agree with you.
But there's a decent chance to gain yards AND a good chance make them use the clock AND a great chance to still have 3rd down if that doesn't happen.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:15 am**

This was a huge loss. The Chiefs don't have many gimme games. Again, the Ravens had stacked the box. Need to evaluate the situation there and not get blasted running the ball. They outnumbered the Chiefs at the point of attack. It was a very Jayhawk run play. No motion, no deception. Blown up. With a small RB getting assaulted in the middle. In the context of the moment, an incredibly idiotic play choice. Lost yards just like you would expect. And the ball. Never hand off the ball in a Jackie Chan survival scenario.

Posted: **Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:58 pm**

The Chiefs will be favored in maybe every single game the rest of the regular season. Deep breaths.

Posted: **Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:55 am**

Frank Clark out for the game.
Bosa may play.

Posted: **Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:06 am**

Clark out.
Jones questionable.
Ward questionable.
15s back is going to be hurting today from carrying this team.

Posted: **Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:31 pm**

Edit... Turnovers now on four consecutive possessions dating back to last week for the Chiefs. Ridiculous.

Posted: **Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:48 pm**

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