Kansas Crimson

Back in July:

Ochai:-
16.6 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 40% 3.

1st team all b12.
1st team all defense.
On a 3rd team AA list.

( the original Ochai senior season thread until Ousdahl started another one ):
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3890

Before the season started I had him 'surprisingly' winning the B12POY.

Sold him short ( thought he'd be better on defense too ). But all that's better than Rush.

randylahey wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:43 am Brush was never featured or used like och though. Because of how deep and talented those teams he was on. Also you are comparing a senior och to brush who left early. Och hadn't developed his handle and level of dominance until this year

But, I think it's pretty well understood that Rush wasn't physically capable of developing this kind of handle.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:34 am Back in July:

Ochai:-
16.6 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 40% 3.

1st team all b12.
1st team all defense.
On a 3rd team AA list.

( the original Ochai senior season thread until Ousdahl started another one ):
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3890

Before the season started I had him 'surprisingly' winning the B12POY.

Sold him short ( thought he'd be better on defense too ). But all that's better than Rush.

And here we are wondering if he will win NATIONAL player of the year. Gotta love it

jfish26 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:05 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:43 am Brush was never featured or used like och though. Because of how deep and talented those teams he was on. Also you are comparing a senior och to brush who left early. Och hadn't developed his handle and level of dominance until this year

But, I think it's pretty well understood that Rush wasn't physically capable of developing this kind of handle.

Agreed. He had that short arm lol. Rush was elite off the ball as a 3 and d guy. Ochai outgrew that role as a college player and has become a guy that can go off the dribble

randylahey wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:19 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:05 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:43 am Brush was never featured or used like och though. Because of how deep and talented those teams he was on. Also you are comparing a senior och to brush who left early. Och hadn't developed his handle and level of dominance until this year

But, I think it's pretty well understood that Rush wasn't physically capable of developing this kind of handle.

Agreed. He had that short arm lol. Rush was elite off the ball as a 3 and d guy. Ochai outgrew that role as a college player and has become a guy that can go off the dribble

Wasn't just a short arm, it was a broken one that clearly wasn't handled well. Sucks for him.

I do think Och has been better than Rush here now that we have seen this version of Och.

To be fair to Rush, though, it would have been something to see Rush play in this type of offense (and yes, Rush was also surrounded by pros). Rush was also better equipped to play in today's NBA and he still lasted 9 seasons.

And on Och, I think we all knew that he was capable of this, but that it is still very understandable for any of us to still be a little surprised it came to fruition. He's just a way different dude.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:46 pm And on Och, I think we all knew that he was capable of this, but that it is still very understandable for any of us to still be a little surprised it came to fruition. He's just a way different dude.

Nothing you said is wrong, but it puts a lot of pressure on "was capable." I think it's fair to say that Och has come as close to his college-age ceiling as any NBA-caliber guy we've had. In that, he's a lot like Frank and Devonte.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:57 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:46 pm And on Och, I think we all knew that he was capable of this, but that it is still very understandable for any of us to still be a little surprised it came to fruition. He's just a way different dude.

Nothing you said is wrong, but it puts a lot of pressure on "was capable." I think it's fair to say that Och has come as close to his college-age ceiling as any NBA-caliber guy we've had. In that, he's a lot like Frank and Devonte.

Bill has been so outrageously good at that. Twins, Robinson, Withey, Azuibuke. Vick on the court was playing at an incredible level. Getting Garrett to the NBA is pretty remarkable. If CB comes back, he's going to be an absolute nightmare.

Och is nowhere near Brandon Rush. Rush persevered on a broken arm that was barely healed (you could see the atrophy in his arm) and still played in the NBA. Och will never, ever, play in the NBA. And I love Och.

Leawood wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:09 pm Och is nowhere near Brandon Rush. Rush persevered on a broken arm that was barely healed (you could see the atrophy in his arm) and still played in the NBA. Och will never, ever, play in the NBA. And I love Och.

This is sort of silly. Och is a better college player than Rush was. He's about to be drafted in a similar spot as Rush was, and there's no reason to think he won't get to multiple contracts.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:02 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:57 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:46 pm And on Och, I think we all knew that he was capable of this, but that it is still very understandable for any of us to still be a little surprised it came to fruition. He's just a way different dude.

Nothing you said is wrong, but it puts a lot of pressure on "was capable." I think it's fair to say that Och has come as close to his college-age ceiling as any NBA-caliber guy we've had. In that, he's a lot like Frank and Devonte.

Bill has been so outrageously good at that. Twins, Robinson, Withey, Azuibuke. Vick on the court was playing at an incredible level. Getting Garrett to the NBA is pretty remarkable. If CB comes back, he's going to be an absolute nightmare.

Cole, too. Tyshawn.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:11 pm

Leawood wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:09 pm Och is nowhere near Brandon Rush. Rush persevered on a broken arm that was barely healed (you could see the atrophy in his arm) and still played in the NBA. Och will never, ever, play in the NBA. And I love Och.

This is sort of silly. Och is a better college player than Rush was. He's about to be drafted in a similar spot as Rush was, and there's no reason to think he won't get to multiple contracts.

This is a tough comparison. Rush was an elite defender and probably would have averaged 17-18 fairly easily if he played on a different team.

Och’s TS and eFG percentages are nuts though.

I think a faster-paced offense (and perhaps less competition for shots) might have put Rush at that level of scoring. But, man, I just don't see Och as anything less than Rush's equal at the college level. And what I see Och do off the bounce is just different from what I remember Rush of even being capable of.

"But, man, I just don't see Och as anything less than Rush's equal at the college level. And what I see Och do off the bounce is just different from what I remember Rush of even being capable of."

Put me here.
You can have what ifs but Ochai is leading this team which doesnt boast as much nba talent.
Rush better defender but he didnt average 20 PPG. He averaged just over 13.

Leawood wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:09 pm Och is nowhere near Brandon Rush. Rush persevered on a broken arm that was barely healed (you could see the atrophy in his arm) and still played in the NBA. Och will never, ever, play in the NBA. And I love Och.

Go look at some of the names of guys who are on NBA rosters right now. Agbaji absolutely will be playing in the NBA in the near future.

Ochai is getting drafted first round.
He has a chance at lotto.
Most first round draft picks ( 99.8 percent I'd guess ) play in the NBA.

twocoach wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:11 pm

Leawood wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:09 pm Och is nowhere near Brandon Rush. Rush persevered on a broken arm that was barely healed (you could see the atrophy in his arm) and still played in the NBA. Och will never, ever, play in the NBA. And I love Och.

Go look at some of the names of guys who are on NBA rosters right now. Agbaji absolutely will be playing in the NBA in the near future.

I agree. The question, to me, is whether he simply hangs on for a nice career (Rush, Shady, Cole, etc.), or whether he can keep growing and get the Morrii/Graham big bucks.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:01 pm I think a faster-paced offense (and perhaps less competition for shots) might have put Rush at that level of scoring. But, man, I just don't see Och as anything less than Rush's equal at the college level. And what I see Och do off the bounce is just different from what I remember Rush of even being capable of.

Similar thoughts.

Och’s chance starts in 5-6 weeks

Only 3 first rounders from 2020 have failed to play at least 800 NBA minutes so far.

Https://www.basketball-reference.com/dr ... _2020.html

Same with 2019. 1st rounders get NBA minutes.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/dr ... _2019.html