Kansas Crimson

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:00 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:52 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:47 pm scream at a guy to shoot more, tear him apart when he hits 4% less.....christ

He's doing worse on fewer shots. That is not good!

his quality of shot is considerably worse. He's having to force shots, force spinning twirling scoops on drives because literally nobody else is doing anything eventually he ends up with the ball and no time.

He hasn't been the person I've had an issue with this year.

I don't think you're wrong in one sense, but I also feel like "makes the offense work good" is sort of what he's supposed to bring to the table.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:07 pm Marcus Garrett was really only a PG for 1 season, right?

I don't really count him as a PG. Dotson was the PG for 2 of his years.

All I'm saying is that at his best, Harris is an average guard over the Bill era. And I don't think it's disputable that this has NOT been his best year.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:12 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:07 pm Marcus Garrett was really only a PG for 1 season, right?

I don't really count him as a PG. Dotson was the PG for 2 of his years.

All I'm saying is that at his best, Harris is an average guard over the Bill era. And I don't think it's disputable that this has NOT been his best year.

Yes. Average compared to some of the others. Which is an insane roster of guards.

His position has also had some of our biggest stars so it's a bit skewed. Frank Devonte and Miles all in the rafters or will be. Dotson and Tyshawn were NBA caliber guards.

And the rest? I'd probably take DH over them.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:18 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:12 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:07 pm Marcus Garrett was really only a PG for 1 season, right?

I don't really count him as a PG. Dotson was the PG for 2 of his years.

All I'm saying is that at his best, Harris is an average guard over the Bill era. And I don't think it's disputable that this has NOT been his best year.

Yes. Average compared to some of the others.

But his position has also had some of our biggest stars so it's a bit skewed. Frank Devonte and Miles all in the rafters or will be. Dotson and Tyshawn were NBA caliber guards.

And the rest? I'd probably take DH over them.

Right. Which puts him...right in the middle of the pack. It sure feels to me like some people treat him as something much more than that.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:20 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:18 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:12 pm

All I'm saying is that at his best, Harris is an average guard over the Bill era. And I don't think it's disputable that this has NOT been his best year.

Yes. Average compared to some of the others.

But his position has also had some of our biggest stars so it's a bit skewed. Frank Devonte and Miles all in the rafters or will be. Dotson and Tyshawn were NBA caliber guards.

And the rest? I'd probably take DH over them.

Right. Which puts him...right in the middle of the pack. It sure feels to me like some people treat him as something much more than that.

I think some of us treat him fairly, while others hold him to the Frank Devonte standard which is unfair. He was never brought here to be that kind of role.

If some of you "need" that role for the PG (the star Frank Devonte type role) then that's a personal preference, but not DHs fault that Self has constructed rosters where the wings and bigs were the stars recently.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:09 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:04 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:03 pm

And I'd argue that, in this context, even a mere failure to improve is pretty disappointing.

Yea.
I expected better.
But I don't think Harris is currently high on the list for what ails us.

It's roster construction. Again, I'm not saying he molests collies.

Hunter and Kevin can be the two best players on a championship roster. But the third had BETTER be a near-AA level ballhandler. And we do not have one of those on our roster.

Not necessarily true.

Let's say Kevin ( fully healthy Kevin ) is our Ochai.
Hunter is a better ( but far less likable ) Dmac.
Dajuan was our staring point.

The third could be someone like Christian Braun.

If we could fast forward Furphy to sophomore season and bring him back now and magically heal Kevin to 100%, I think that's could be a championship roster - with Dajuan as your starting point.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:36 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:09 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:04 pm

Yea.
I expected better.
But I don't think Harris is currently high on the list for what ails us.

It's roster construction. Again, I'm not saying he molests collies.

Hunter and Kevin can be the two best players on a championship roster. But the third had BETTER be a near-AA level ballhandler. And we do not have one of those on our roster.

Not necessarily true.

Let's say Kevin ( fully healthy Kevin ) is our Ochai.
Hunter is a better ( but far less likable ) Dmac.
Dajuan was our staring point.

The third could be someone like Christian Braun.

If we could fast forward Furphy to sophomore season and bring him back now and magically heal Kevin to 100%, I think that's could be a championship roster - with Dajuan as your starting point.

I believe that our leading scorer in that 2022 championship tournament was...not Ochai, Dmac, Christian OR Dajuan?

Edit to add: OR Jalen?

Dajuan has been really good for us, but he needs another combo guard to play with, simple as that.

For Frank to play at his best, he needed devonte to help shoulder the load and take the pressure off

Freshman and transfers haven't been able to do that

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:43 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:36 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:09 pm

It's roster construction. Again, I'm not saying he molests collies.

Hunter and Kevin can be the two best players on a championship roster. But the third had BETTER be a near-AA level ballhandler. And we do not have one of those on our roster.

Not necessarily true.

Let's say Kevin ( fully healthy Kevin ) is our Ochai.
Hunter is a better ( but far less likable ) Dmac.
Dajuan was our staring point.

The third could be someone like Christian Braun.

If we could fast forward Furphy to sophomore season and bring him back now and magically heal Kevin to 100%, I think that's could be a championship roster - with Dajuan as your starting point.

I believe that our leading scorer in that 2022 championship tournament was...not Ochai, Dmac, Christian OR Dajuan?

Edit to add: OR Jalen?

If you're implying that Remy Martin was the 3rd best player on that championship team and/or 3rd most important player in those 6 games to the title then I have no interest in furthering this discussion.

Remy was a huge part of the championship run, wherever you wanna rank him who cares. We needed that quickness and spark

This team needs that quickness and spark. Dajuan/our team would benefit big time offensively from a guy like Remy

Championship run rankings in order:

DMac
Och
CB
Jalen
Remy
DH
Mitch

No argument.

If you're trying to say that this team is missing a 3rd star for a title run, I'm on bored.
If you're trying to say that this team is missing impact off the bench, I'm also on bored.

But if you're comparing the team that did win the title to this one, one in which Dajuan played the most minutes at point, and saying that the 3rd star was Remy, then you've lost me.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:22 pm Championship run rankings in order:

DMac
Och
CB
Jalen
Remy
DH
Mitch

this list is so dependent on what a person deems as "most important" and varies wildly game to game.

That team were cogs in a w
machine, all required for proper function. This years team is built from the scrap heap and lots of grease, trying to limp to a service center.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:22 pm Championship run rankings in order:

DMac
Och
CB
Jalen
Remy
DH
Mitch

Reasonable.

And i'd say if Kevin was fully healthy and we could travel into the future and bring sophomore Furphy here the rankings would be:

Kevin ( fully healthy and free from twocoach rumors )
Hunter
From the Future Furphy
DH
KJ

Um.
Help?

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:53 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:43 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:36 pm

Not necessarily true.

Let's say Kevin ( fully healthy Kevin ) is our Ochai.
Hunter is a better ( but far less likable ) Dmac.
Dajuan was our staring point.

The third could be someone like Christian Braun.

If we could fast forward Furphy to sophomore season and bring him back now and magically heal Kevin to 100%, I think that's could be a championship roster - with Dajuan as your starting point.

I believe that our leading scorer in that 2022 championship tournament was...not Ochai, Dmac, Christian OR Dajuan?

Edit to add: OR Jalen?

If you're implying that Remy Martin was the 3rd best player on that championship team and/or 3rd most important player in those 6 games to the title then I have no interest in furthering this discussion.

Not what I'm implying.

What I'm saying is that that championship team's roster was, in substance, MUCH more balanced/deeper from this date forward than the aggregate season stats make it look.

In other words, Harris clearly, absolutely CAN be a starting PG for a championship team.

But - and I think we agree on this - he's got to have a whole lot more around him than what he's got on this roster, particularly at this moment.

Ah, totally.
Kinda like my "Um, help?" in the post above yours.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:35 pm Ah, totally.
Kinda like my "Um, help?" in the post above yours.

Pretty much. And that post illustrates how costly the miss on Morris was.

That team had 3 NBA players starting on it.

This team has maybe 2.

I still believe that this team, with a healthy Kevin, is still a reasonable ' if the right matchups hit contender'.

I don't think we'll get a healthy Kevin...so, errr, good luck everyone.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:37 pm That team had 3 NBA players starting on it.

This team has maybe 2.

Definitely 2.
Kevin and Furphy will play in the NBA.