Kansas Crimson

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:24 am**

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:15 am Also, not sure why we wouldn't at least take a shot at some of the top guys in the portal Aj Storr and Cliff Omoruyi. No reason we shouldn't have the pick of the litter if Furphy and HD leave.

cuz then Self will get accused of forcing guys out?

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:28 am**

there is nothing to accuse him of. he does force guys out. every year he forces guys out. we all know that. who cares.

it ain't gonna be hd or jf that is forced out.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:28 am**

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:15 am You'd think if Elmarko or Jamari are going to enter the portal that they'd do it sooner rather than later.

Doesn't feel like either want to leave. If we add a few guards from the portal I could see them entering late tho

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:29 am**

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:24 am
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:15 am Also, not sure why we wouldn't at least take a shot at some of the top guys in the portal Aj Storr and Cliff Omoruyi. No reason we shouldn't have the pick of the litter if Furphy and HD leave.
cuz then Self will get accused of forcing guys out?

That's just part of it now I guess.

I think it's awfully hard to look at situations like Yesufu Pettiford and Clemence and not feel like those were force outs.

Udeh and Zuby ran from competition. And Mj Rice was mad about not playing immediately.

That's my take on it.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:30 am**

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:28 am there is nothing to accuse him of. he does force guys out. every year he forces guys out. we all know that. who cares.

I beleive we've recruited guys through the years with the intention of using them as practice bodies for a year and letting them transfer out too. Merv Lindsey, latrell jossell, etc

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:31 am**

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:24 am
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:15 am
cuz then Self will get accused of forcing guys out?

in today's world of the players having all the fluidity, is that a bad thing? Coaches will get blamed for not putting the best possible team on the floor, so why not?

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:33 am**

I am fine with force outs for behavior. I am also fine with performance based force outs in certain situations.

DH and Kj are the example of players that I believe deserve loyalty.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:35 am**

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:33 am I am fine with force outs for behavior. I am also fine with performance based force outs in certain situations.

DH and Kj are the example of players that I believe deserve loyalty.

They could've easily been forced out early too. Dajuan redshirted to start, then didn't do shit as a freshman. KJ barely played as a freshman

If Self needed their schollie then it could have happened to them too

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:36 am**

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:35 am
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:33 am I am fine with force outs for behavior. I am also fine with performance based force outs in certain situations.

DH and Kj are the example of players that I believe deserve loyalty.
They could've easily been forced out early too. Dajuan redshirted to start, then didn't do shit as a freshman. KJ barely played as a freshman

If Self needed their schollie then it could have happened to them too

And that's fine. If they'd have been forced out 3 years ago that's one thing. But I do not think it's fair to force them out now.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:40 am**

upperclassmen don't get forced out(at least not yet). freshmen get forced out.

and if he does force out an upperclassmen. it ain't gonna be two guys that helped bring him and the school a nc.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:44 am**

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:33 am I am fine with force outs for behavior. I am also fine with performance based force outs in certain situations.

DH and Kj are the example of players that I believe deserve loyalty.

It's a hard line to suss out.

Is a player "forced out" if they are told what their role will likely be, and they choose to seek a different role somewhere else?

As a manager, I would say no.

As a parent, I would feel yes.

I would have to imagine - and to be clear, this is why he gets the big bucks - Bill perceives himself to have an impossible choice. He gets skewered for not winning. But he would get skewered for doing something he might think would be in service of winning.

I tend to think that the loyalty the program owes to guys is (1) honesty, and (2) honoring the scholarship and all that comes with it. Everything beyond those two things, to me, must be earned in practice and on the floor.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:54 am**

the children are not loyal. so i see no reason to be loyal to them.

it's a new world where loyalty plays no role.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:57 am**

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:44 am
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:33 am I am fine with force outs for behavior. I am also fine with performance based force outs in certain situations.

DH and Kj are the example of players that I believe deserve loyalty.
It's a hard line to suss out.

Is a player "forced out" if they are told what their role will likely be, and they choose to seek a different role somewhere else?

As a manager, I would say no.

As a parent, I would feel yes.

I would have to imagine - and to be clear, this is why he gets the big bucks - Bill perceives himself to have an impossible choice. He gets skewered for not winning. But he would get skewered for doing something he might think would be in service of winning.

I tend to think that the loyalty the program owes to guys is (1) honesty, and (2) honoring the scholarship and all that comes with it. Everything beyond those two things, to me, must be earned in practice and on the floor.

honoring the scholarship depends on earning it in practice and on the floor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but scholarships are a one year deal that may or may not be renewed.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:33 pm**

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:44 am
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:33 am I am fine with force outs for behavior. I am also fine with performance based force outs in certain situations.

DH and Kj are the example of players that I believe deserve loyalty.
It's a hard line to suss out.

Is a player "forced out" if they are told what their role will likely be, and they choose to seek a different role somewhere else?

As a manager, I would say no.

As a parent, I would feel yes.

I would have to imagine - and to be clear, this is why he gets the big bucks - Bill perceives himself to have an impossible choice. He gets skewered for not winning. But he would get skewered for doing something he might think would be in service of winning.

I tend to think that the loyalty the program owes to guys is (1) honesty, and (2) honoring the scholarship and all that comes with it. Everything beyond those two things, to me, must be earned in practice and on the floor.

To me, a force out is when Self sits a player down in the off season and says "hey, we are bringing in a few guys at your position and we no longer have a spot for you on the team...." and then offers to help in anyway possible to get them into a good situation elsewhere.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:58 pm**

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:33 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:44 am
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:33 am I am fine with force outs for behavior. I am also fine with performance based force outs in certain situations.

DH and Kj are the example of players that I believe deserve loyalty.
It's a hard line to suss out.

Is a player "forced out" if they are told what their role will likely be, and they choose to seek a different role somewhere else?

As a manager, I would say no.

As a parent, I would feel yes.

I would have to imagine - and to be clear, this is why he gets the big bucks - Bill perceives himself to have an impossible choice. He gets skewered for not winning. But he would get skewered for doing something he might think would be in service of winning.

I tend to think that the loyalty the program owes to guys is (1) honesty, and (2) honoring the scholarship and all that comes with it. Everything beyond those two things, to me, must be earned in practice and on the floor.
To me, a force out is when Self sits a player down in the off season and says "hey, we are bringing in a few guys at your position and we no longer have a spot for you on the team...." and then offers to help in anyway possible to get them into a good situation elsewhere.

I think I would agree. But I would also understand why the player might hear, "we are bringing in a few guys at your position and we no longer can assure you [x] minutes in [y] role," as, "we are bringing in a few guys at your position and we no longer have a spot for you on the team."

That's why it's such a hard line to suss out.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:59 pm**

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:54 am the children are not loyal. so i see no reason to be loyal to them.

it's a new world where loyalty plays no role.

I do not disagree with the direction you are going. I absolutely feel that the program owes guys less where the guys are more free to move around.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:26 pm**

i don’t consider any situation a force out unless the scholarship is being taken away and the player is being asked to leave

it’s Self’s job to recruit the best players for his system

getting recruited over isn’t the same as getting forced out, imo

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:28 pm**

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:58 pm
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:33 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:44 am

It's a hard line to suss out.

Is a player "forced out" if they are told what their role will likely be, and they choose to seek a different role somewhere else?

As a manager, I would say no.

As a parent, I would feel yes.

I would have to imagine - and to be clear, this is why he gets the big bucks - Bill perceives himself to have an impossible choice. He gets skewered for not winning. But he would get skewered for doing something he might think would be in service of winning.

I tend to think that the loyalty the program owes to guys is (1) honesty, and (2) honoring the scholarship and all that comes with it. Everything beyond those two things, to me, must be earned in practice and on the floor.
To me, a force out is when Self sits a player down in the off season and says "hey, we are bringing in a few guys at your position and we no longer have a spot for you on the team...." and then offers to help in anyway possible to get them into a good situation elsewhere.
I think I would agree. But I would also understand why the player might hear, "we are bringing in a few guys at your position and we no longer can assure you [x] minutes in [y] role," as, "we are bringing in a few guys at your position and we no longer have a spot for you on the team."

That's why it's such a hard line to suss out.

I feel you. Hard to know for sure from the outside.

I think being honest is good, so that the player can do what they feel is best for themselves based on truthful info. So I wouldn't consider those situations forceouts.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:29 pm**

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:26 pm getting recruited over isn’t the same as getting forced out, imo

Agree.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:45 pm**

I maintain if a guy like KJ Adams is leaving Kansas we have a problem.
If a one year guy like Pettiford is leaving Kansas, though i'd love for both parties to work together to stay, it's more understandable.

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